Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone, this is Chris. I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast. The scripture, Revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Our hope is that as you listen, you will be encouraged in the Lord. This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him. We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives. So today we are visited by Brenda Jellicorse, who is Chris's mother-in-law. That's correct.

Speaker 3: 1:07

Brenda, give us kind of an introduction to who you provide guidance to pray for the regional pastors in what we call the Antioch Mountain to Sea region. That's really the Carolinas and Washington DC area and Washington DC area. We have several churches, young pastors and their spouses that are doing a great job, but they're under a lot of pressure, and so we really do see ourselves as kind of the team that is helping to support them, along with others. We're not the only folks doing that. The Likens, who are dear friends of ours, are coming alongside to do that as well. But before that, steve and I served as the senior pastors of Antioch Raleigh and that was really quite a wonderful experience for us.

Speaker 3: 2:10

It started right about the time COVID hit and then went for a few more years and we transitioned out of that and then before that I was in the business world. I spent. I was in the business world. I spent 15 to 20 years as a CFO of a software company. I don't want to go too much into my. I feel like I've had about five careers in my life, but that one is probably the one that I had the biggest chunk of time and learned a lot. But it's quite different from being in the world of church and sort of caring for and serving a community of believers, and I needed a lot of help from the Lord to do that. Earlier in our life, in our 20s, we had been in college campus ministry and I think that calling just never did go away. The Lord called us back into that. So we're just thankful that we've been able to serve.

Speaker 2: 3:17

That's awesome Give us. So there's a lot of people in our circles that know you really well. So there's a lot of people in our circles that know you really well. It's okay if you can't think of one off the top of your head, but I would love to know a fact about you that maybe a lot of those people in that circle don't know about you. Huh.

Speaker 3: 3:46

Whether it's a funny story or just kind of a shocking story. Well, I've known Steve since I was in the second grade. Wow, that's a long time I did not know that. Yes, I grew up with him and his mother was a teacher, a substitute teacher in my elementary school years holy cow so I um instructed my children to always treat their substitute teacher with kindness and respect, because you never know when you're gonna you to have another kind of relationship with that person. So I was very thankful.

Speaker 1: 4:31

That is hilarious and you knew early on. You had heard early on that from the Lord you were going to marry Steve.

Speaker 3: 4:38

I did. The Lord spoke to me when I was 16 about that. The Lord spoke to me when I was 16 about that, and I remember that because that's when Andrea heard that she was going to marry me at 16, when she was 16. She did, and so I really couldn't say and it was helpful that you had heard that no, you're too young, so you didn't think she was crazy.

Speaker 3: 5:03

Yeah, I couldn't say to her. I'm sorry, god wouldn't say that to you. The Lord wouldn't speak to someone who's 16. And so I was very thankful when I asked her the question. So I believe that the Lord can speak to you about who you're going to marry. Has the Lord spoken to you about timing? And she said yes. I believe that the Lord spoke to me that Chris and I should not date until I am 18. Now Chris is a few years older than Andrea, so when she came to me and she was 16, chris was 20, which posed a bit of a problem for me. But when?

Speaker 3: 6:01

she turned 18. I felt much more, much more comfortable with my now 18, very mature, 18 year old daughter, who I really did believe and heard from the lord, and it's turned out pretty my life together between uh 20 and 22 and so when they were both adults, then they were able to, you know, begin that more serious romantic phase of their relationship and, uh, I'm very proud that she did seek the lord about that that's so cool, cool.

Speaker 3: 6:44

Yeah. So when I was 16, I heard the Lord speak to me. I was seeking the Lord in science class. It really wasn't science class. There was no one in there with me. I was just sitting in the room where I normally had science class and I felt like I heard the Lord say to me that Steve Jellicorse was going to be my husband and we weren't dating. I didn't even know about his walk with the Lord, so initially I said, well, that can't be God.

Speaker 3: 7:20

Because, the Lord would never speak to me about someone who does not himself have a walk with the Lord. Fast forward. This was during the Jesus movement. Some people have seen this movie, jesus Revolution. It was that okay. We had a crusade that came to town. It was in a high school in town and I all the a lot of the high school kids were there. A lot of the parents were there. It was a large auditorium. There was a man who was really very cool long hair, bell bottoms, you know. He looked the part and had a rock band, a Jesus rock band, playing music. So it got everybody's attention. But at that time there was an invitation to come to the Lord and I watched as Steve ran down front and I don't mean walk, I mean ran down front to give his heart to the Lord. And as he was running and I was watching him, the Lord spoke to me again. Wow.

Speaker 3: 8:37

Steve Jellicorse is going to be your husband, and so I paid attention your husband and I, so I.

Speaker 5: 8:45

How old were you?

Speaker 3: 8:45

attention. Uh, I was a sophomore in high school okay 15, 16 oh, okay, gotcha, so it was around the same okay, um, and it wasn't much long, much after that moment, and then we started going to a. We called it a Bible study together, and the rest is history. As they say, we were both trying to follow the Lord.

Speaker 3: 9:25

And we had a great discipler and he would ask us so what is Jesus saying to you today? And I was raised Baptist and had memorized a lot of Scripture. My parents had really nurtured me in paying attention to the Scripture and I am incredibly thankful for that. But nobody had ever really spoken in my church about hearing the voice of the Lord. That was kind of a foreign concept.

Speaker 2: 10:00

I was going to say real quick. I'd love to backtrack just for a minute or two. You said you grew up in a Southern Baptist background, but you heard the voice of the Lord very clearly at age 16. What was that like?

Speaker 3: 10:17

Okay so when I was 12, I was at a camp, one of these summer camps that you send your kids to, hoping that they'll have an experience with the and or get something good out of it.

Speaker 3: 10:30

And I was at one of these Baptist camps and I was like I said I was 12.

Speaker 3: 10:38

There was a missionary there who spoke about the Lord as if he actually had conversations with him, and it was the first time I'd heard this. So I remember praying and saying to the Lord, praying and saying to the Lord you know, lord, if I can have that, if I can have a relationship like that, that's what I'm looking for. And I felt like that was the first time that I really gave my heart to the Lord. I'd had other times when I raised my hand and said, yes, I want to be a Christian, all that, but it wasn't personal. Even though we talked a lot about having a personal relationship with the Lord, I don't feel like I had one until I stepped into the idea that I could have a personal relationship with the Lord, which means I speak to him, he speaks to me Wow. And at that camp I really gave my heart to the Lord and that began a journey where I wanted to be able to hear the voice of the Lord. I'm not talking about an audible voice. I've never heard an audible voice.

Speaker 3: 12:03

Yeah, sure an audible voice. I've never heard an audible voice. What I'm talking about is more of a gut, heart level sense that this is something God is trying to communicate to me, and I'm sure I've missed it times when I've thought that, but there have been other times when I've been, it's been very clear, and this time, when I heard about Steve being my spouse in the future, that was one of those times. Wow. And so you know, in that 12, between age 12 and 16, I'd been trying to hear the voice of the Lord, trying to understand how to hear the voice of the Lord.

Speaker 2: 12:56

Was that something that was on your parents' paradigm as well? No, it really wasn't.

Speaker 3: 13:02

It was outside their realm of experience and their journey. It wasn't the way that anybody in my life talked to me about, and I look back and I don't really know why. I continued down that pathway without any mentoring or nurturing until this guy, who happened to be my dentist as well, began to disciple Steve and me and a bunch of other kids, and he had an expectation that we would hear the voice of the Lord on a regular basis and was that kind of like a similar, like a life group format.

Speaker 2: 13:41

It was.

Speaker 3: 13:42

Well, it was a bunch of teenagers who were meeting, at first in in his dentist office and then later in his um in his basement den you know where he would. We called it a Bible study. He would play cassette tapes Uh, some of the people listening to this won't even know what a cassette tape is, but we used to have those things and, uh, cassette tapes. Some of the people listening to this won't even know what a cassette tape is, but we used to have those things. And so various speakers and preachers and Bible teachers would have messages that he thought were really good and he would play the cassette tape and then we would talk about it and talk about you know, about what it really meant in our life. And some of those teachers, they really had a profound message from the Lord, so I'm appreciative of that. But the other thing he taught us was what do you do to walk out your faith? And it was pretty simple you read the Bible, you pray out your faith, and we had it. It was pretty simple you read the bible, you pray, you share your faith which we did regularly and you go to church. And if you do those four things, then you know that's what you need to do to be a christian and honestly, I think he, he is pretty good. I still believe that way. I still think that that's a pretty good set of instructions. And so we tried to do that.

Speaker 3: 15:15

And now I will say that, you know, we fell in love. We knew we were supposed to be married. We knew we were supposed to be married and here we were, 16, and looking at needing to be graduated from college before we could be married. Well, that didn't turn out exactly the way we planned. The way we planned, we were two healthy young people who were very attracted to each other and didn't have any guidance really to speak of other than thou shalt not. And so we thought, man, how are we going to make it? We gonna make it seriously. And we didn't make it and we um wound up, you know, falling into immorality.

Speaker 3: 16:16

I wouldn't say we fell, we probably dove into and um, you know what happens when people have intimate relationship with each other. You know what you call that. You call them parents. So when I was 19, I was pregnant and we weren't married 18, excuse me, pregnant, not married, just about ready to be 19. And it was right at the time when abortion on demand had just been. I mean, it was a new thing, but it was there and I remember absolutely knowing what was right and wrong, and it cost us quite a bit. We were from a small town. It meant that we, our lives, were on display in front of people who thought that we were good Christians and we had shared our faith quite a bit and that was a difficult, difficult time in our lives, but I have no regrets about it.

Speaker 3: 17:39

Not at all I am so thankful that I made the decision to. We said look, we already know the Lord wants us to be married. We just we have the timing wrong. So we got married and seven months later I had a baby, and that baby is my oldest son, Jeremiah Jeremiah. And so when he was old enough to figure it all out and put the timeline together and comes and asks us did you have to get married? I said well, son, let me tell you something. We wanted to get married. We already were in essence engaged. We knew that we were were in essence engaged. We knew that we were. This is who God had for us. So we accelerated that timeline when.

Speaker 3: 18:31

I was pregnant. Now I don't I do not justify or say that we were doing the right thing just because we were engaged or whatever. Yeah, sure, I think it would have been good. The guidance now is I'm not sure why we felt we had to delay until we were in our 20s or until we had graduated college.

Speaker 3: 19:01

That was just an expectation that we put on ourselves and partly because our parents has kind of told us that. So when chris and andrea start dating and then she's 18 and he's 22 now he has graduated college we were pretty committed to not making the same mistake that had been made in our lives. And we we said look you two, we want you to have an engagement period that is one that is long enough for you to get to know each other, but short enough for you to not have to be under some extreme pressure of temptation.

Speaker 3: 19:41

So let's figure this out. And we're not going to put some false expectation that andrea has to graduate college before she gets married.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Can I can I ask a question. So leslie and I also kind of fell into immorality and she would be fine with me sharing this before we got engaged. So then we broke up, long story short, felt like the Lord wanted us to break up, and then, um, we got back together and then um pursued engagement. One thing that was really really hard for both of us was just the shame.

Speaker 3: 20:17

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:17

And there wasn't a lot of. I'm not going to say there wasn't anyone that helped us in that, but it felt like in the moment you're really alone and that you're labeled, Was there during that time? Was there someone that helped you guys through that shame, or was it something you kind of had to figure out?

Speaker 3: 20:41

Well, it's interesting that you asked that. Um, we didn't really. I didn't fully process that shame for decades. Wow, um, and I will tell you. When that broke in my life, when I was 40 and I, I decided that I wasn't going to let the enemy have this territory anymore and I integrated it into my testimony, just like I'm doing today. And until I brought it out into the light and talked about it and how kind the Lord was to us and how he blessed us and how he didn't you know, part of the responsibility for that was with the adults in our life that probably should have given us some guidance, like, don't wait six years.

Speaker 3: 21:35

If you know who the Lord wants you to get married, to do not prolong the process. I mean, Scripture says it's better to marry than to burn.

Speaker 3: 21:45

So, we were definitely burning, and I think that the only way for me to have that shame cycle broken in my life was to bring it right out into the light and say, nope, this is what the Lord did in my life. I know that this is I'm marrying the person I'm supposed to, and we made some mistakes, we entered into sin, but I'll tell you what we did not do. We did not make the deep mistake of not marrying the person that we're supposed to and we did not make an even more tragic mistake of terminating a pregnancy to cover our shame. Just, you know, just own it and move forward, because the Lord was there with us the whole time and.

Speaker 3: 22:42

He knew exactly. He knew what we had done and we came from a small town and it was during a time period where people were less accepting of that sort of scenario. So it took me probably much longer than that, hopefully longer than you and Leslie, I would say. Be bold about it and say you know this was sin. I repented and the Lord has redeemed everything and anybody who and what happened is. What happens then is that testimony is essentially revenge against what the enemy I mean. The enemy entices you into sin and then, when you fall, he shames you for doing it.

Speaker 3: 23:27

What's up with that, so I do not. I do not accept that at all. No that was, yeah, I sinned, I own it. I sinned, and, but I also recognize that the Lord redeems and I'm very thankful for you know, for four kids with this man. We've made a life together and um, and it has. The Lord has blessed us. So, people who feel like that their life is over because they've committed some sin and they just can't move forward.

Speaker 3: 24:01

That is just not true. There is redemption, and don't short circuit what the power of your testimony might do in another person's life. Use it as revenge or what the against what the enemy has done.

Speaker 1: 24:15

That is so good that's really good, that's right I mean, that's really the heart of this whole podcast is like stories like that yeah, to get them out there to bring freedom from each other people. It brings freedom and we've we've gotten feedback on you know somebody. Somebody owns up, brings their sin into the light, talks about it like this is what I did and this is how the lord redeemed me. And then other people are like okay, I need to bring my yeah situation out into the light and there's freedom out there.

Speaker 3: 24:45

I wish that I had been able to see this here I I go 20 years kind of living with the shame, not, not every day not thinking about it. Just, you know, occasionally thinking well, I hope nobody figures this out. But once I started had the freedom to just talk about it, that was no longer an issue. It didn't the enemy couldn't, you know, bring shame to bear on a part of my life. It was in the light.

Speaker 1: 25:27

That is so there's no hiding and other people can glean from it you know, you can you can come to people like andre and I and and our youth, and be like no, you should.

Speaker 3: 25:38

Don't wait, don't wait too long don't wait, I mean there's, there's an appropriate amount of time, wait that long and yeah not try not to draw it out too long, yeah, so yeah, I always recommend short engagements yeah I had a 10 month engagement.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Thankfully, for four of those months andrew was in mozambique, I was in europe, but leslie and my engagement was four months.

Speaker 2: 26:04

I think as well Something like that. Yeah, oh yeah, warren's was three months. Warren was really ready to get married.

Speaker 3: 26:16

Well, you know, if you're mature enough and you really understand who you are and that other person understands who they are and you get the proper counsel, I think you can go a little faster if you're in a less mature stage of life and you don't really quite know who you are.

Speaker 2: 26:34

I think one of the biggest lies our generation believes is that we have to be prepared and we have to have our I's dotted and T's crossed before we can get into marriage, and it's like marriage is all about messing up with each other.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Yeah, so you're never, going to be ready for marriage?

Speaker 2: 26:54

Yeah, you'll never be ready, so just enter in young and learn together.

Speaker 3: 26:59

It's a little bit like saying well, I'm not going to have children until I'm a good parent. Yeah, Let me know how you're going to become a good parent.

Speaker 2: 27:08

I'm not sure how that's going to work. That's exactly right.

Speaker 1: 27:12

Yeah, I mean there's a pressure. I think you feel like I got to get my ducks in a row and there's nothing wrong with having a plan and wisdom and all that. But let's remember, like look at Jesus's entry into this world, yeah, remember. Like look at jesus's entry into this world, yeah, right yeah, prophesied unmarried couple by the way right.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Not that they did anything wrong there wasn't like a sin sin there but still it was messy from the outside they're fleeing bethlehem. Right, they're on the road, they're on the run, they're sleeping in where, who knows where. They didn't have the perfect little crib with the blue or the pink paint or whatever. It was pretty crazy.

Speaker 3: 27:53

It really speaks to the humility of our God. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:57

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:58

So true, it's unbelievable. If I were the king of the universe, I might not have thought of being born in a barn. Honestly, not sure I would have entered as an infant. Okay, I might have entered as like one of these Marvel superheroes with flaming swords or something With a body like Warren's. Well, I'm not going to comment on that.

Speaker 3: 28:24

But the point is the Lord is extremely humble and it blows me away just to think about it. You know, I did miss a big section of my life, this discipler, when we were 16, he was a deacon at our Southern Baptist Church, but he had just recently come into an experience with the Lord where he was baptized in the Holy Spirit. That's what some people call it filled with the Spirit. There's ways of talking about it. He'd had an experience with the Lord where he had seen some of the things that you read about in Acts. He was understanding about prophecy, he was speaking in tongues, he was asking the Lord for words of knowledge, all of that that you see in well described in 1 Corinthians, and then you also see the early believers walking in in the book of Acts. That was part of his life and he without actually saying that to the kids that he was discipling.

Speaker 3: 29:45

He was praying for us and laying hands on us and saying, lord, just fill them up with the Holy Spirit and give these kids everything that you have for them. And during that time in our life, steve was just a baby Christian and really didn't even know Matthew from Genesis, but he experienced I don't want to take his testimony away from him, but he did experience an encounter with the Holy Spirit and he was given a prayer language where he was praying in a language that he didn't know. And that really got my attention. And so I went to the Lord and I said okay, lord, I've got a relationship with you. I know you want to give this to me too, and I just asked and kept on asking. I asked for about two weeks and I was just insistent with the Lord that I needed this same experience with him. And then one day, out in the woods by myself, I had a vision. I had a vision of the Lord and he was getting bigger and bigger and I was getting smaller and smaller. And then he reached out and touched me and I began praying in a language that I didn't know, and that was a profound experience for me. I'd never had a vision before and I don't mean I was seeing something like you might see on a movie screen. It was more in my mind's eye. I was seeing something. Well, I didn't tell a soul about the tell him about it and he just I remember his reaction. He was just so happy and he then started telling us that he had that same, a similar experience.

Speaker 3: 32:02

Well, fast forward, I'm 40. Again, a lot of things happened when I was 40. Steve's in a meeting it's a small group meeting in a living room somewhere and he's giving telling people about a vision he said that he had when he was a kid. He said I've never told a soul in the world, not even Brenda, about this vision he said that he had when he was a kid. He said I've never told a soul in the world, not even Brenda, about this vision. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm all ears. He said when I was 16, I had a vision sitting in my dad's barn and in this vision Jesus is getting bigger and bigger and I'm getting smaller and smaller.

Speaker 3: 32:47

And he reaches his hand out to me and he baptizes me in the Holy Spirit and I receive my prayer language and I nearly fell on the floor. Oh my gosh, no way, because we had never shared that part of our experience walk with the Lord, with each other. And here we are 40 years old, finding out that we've had the exact same vision when we were kids Holy cow.

Speaker 1: 33:16

Yeah, that was Married 22 years, or 21 or 22 years at that point why do you think the Lord waited? You think that was intentional?

Speaker 3: 33:26

Why did the Lord wait? The Lord didn't wait, we waited, maybe you waited, but it just seems like gosh.

Speaker 1: 33:32

is that coincidence?

Speaker 5: 33:33

No way, Was there something saved up there that?

Speaker 3: 33:36

you needed to hear that at that time. I just think the Lord was delighted about that.

Speaker 2: 33:43

I love that your breakthrough of that shame happened at age 30. It happened at about the same time. That's so wild.

Speaker 3: 33:51

Yeah, there was a lot of breakthroughs that happened when we were about 40.

Speaker 2: 33:56

Holy cow.

Speaker 3: 33:57

When we were in our 20s, we'd had some a very difficult church experience and you know we were in a young zealous group of people. We were you know Steve was preaching on college campuses. We were seeing people healed and delivered and set free and following Jesus. It was awesome. But there were also, like with all young zealous believers, there was also some gaps in our understanding of who the Lord was, and this particular group had some practices, had some practices not doctrines, but practices that were really out of alignment with the Lord. In particular, there was some legalism and kind of harsh, over-authoritarian, and as we began to sort of see what was going on, we felt that we needed to speak up and say something about it.

Speaker 3: 35:16

And that did not turn out well, we thought, oh, they'll see it too, they'll understand. But remember, we're in our 20s and I think we were very optimistic that people would sort of like, yes, you're right, we just haven't seen this before. We'll stop doing these things that are like really authoritarian. Telling people that, like you can't date, you know some of the leaders of the church becoming involved and saying who could and couldn't get married, just things like that. That we felt that we just a little legalism, just a little, and so we we just a cult.

Speaker 3: 35:55

Yes, a touch of that. What we can't do is we we're not going to come in and try to, you know, rip this organization apart by just complaining. We're going to speak to the leadership, but if they can't see their way clear to make some of these changes, what we can't do is continue in agreement with this. So we left and we were the leaders of a campus church at Ohio State that had about 100 people in it. Wow.

Speaker 3: 36:37

And when that happened we were in essence shunned, which was extremely painful for 20-somethings to suddenly lose pretty much your entire Christian community in a day. So we kind of licked our wounds and went away.

Speaker 1: 36:57

Was this also your full-time?

Speaker 3: 37:00

job. Yes, it was.

Speaker 1: 37:01

So it was like losing your community and your job in the same day.

Speaker 3: 37:04

Yes, and, by the way, we felt that we needed to move. So we moved from Ohio. Well, steve moved to Texas. I went to stay with my parents because we literally didn't have any money, not anything, because we were living on it's a college campus church, I mean how much you're not going to.

Speaker 3: 37:29

Not a lot of tithing going on not a lot of money here and we, um, just thought the Lord was leading us to Texas. Well, as we're leaving, as we're pulling out, and a few brave souls had helped us pack when the rest of the church had been told to stay away because we were covenant breakers or something. I don't know exactly what we were, but we were not good. A few folks helped and there was one fellow there and he was extremely happy and we couldn't quite figure out why he was so happy. He was just bouncing around helping with all the packing and then, when it came time for us to leave, he said I think I've got a word for you guys. And of course we weren't like I don't really want to hear a word, no words please. But he didn't say that. Just, I don't really want to hear a word, no words please.

Speaker 5: 38:27

But didn't say that Just.

Speaker 3: 38:28

You know you want to be polite. And he said you know you think you're going to Texas to be in full-time ministry and the Lord's saying that you're not going to be in ministry, you're going to be in business and he's going to bless you. And when you're 40, he's going to bless you. And when you're 40.

Speaker 3: 38:46

He's going to call you back into ministry and it's not going to look like this, and so we just kind of you know how the balloon goes up in your head. It's like, yeah, I don't really think that's from the Lord, but it was from the Lord and that is what happened Now. The journey to get from our 20s to 40 was a rough road we had to start over. Neither Steve nor I had college degrees at that time. Wow.

Speaker 3: 39:27

Steve had only ever been a college campus pastor and we had zero money, so he was scrambling, thinking he was going to go into full-time ministry and that just didn't pan out for one reason or another, and so he um he started doing what he had to do.

Speaker 1: 39:55

So he did go down to Texas and try to gain ministry.

Speaker 3: 39:58

He did. He was sleeping on a guy's couch who was going to be pastoring with.

Speaker 1: 40:03

But like the word that didn't happen, it did not happen.

Speaker 3: 40:08

And just like the word said, and then he did what he had to do. He started selling insurance door to door. Not a fun thing to do for him, wasn't his dream dream job? He was not self-actualizing at all and when he was able to make enough money so that we could put a um a deposit on a rental place, we I came down with him and he just worked very hard while I took care of, by then, three children. Andrea was then born while we were in Texas during that first year or two and we partnered to make it work and we lived very modestly and I'm just super thankful that Steve worked. He worked very hard to provide for our family and that turned into a whole career in real estate. It became an incredible blessing to us. He started off as a door-to-door salesman for insurance and wound up working for the premier organization in the US in real estate development within a course of just a few years. Let me just tell you something folks.

Speaker 3: 41:27

That does not happen without supernatural intervention, and he did all of that without a college degree.

Speaker 3: 41:35

Yeah, this organization didn't hire anyone except MBAs from Harvard, and they hired him. It was the hand of the Lord and the blessing of the Lord. Now, we both scrambled and worked and did get our college degrees with four children. And then the Lord brought us to North Carolina and when we were 40, we were called back into ministry and it didn't look like it had. It was house church, it was discipleship. Well, let me tell you one of those kids that we were discipling we were working with our children who were now college age, and this was in our 40s and one of those young men that Steve was discipling is sitting in this room. His name is Chris Flowers.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Wow, that's wild, I was discipled by Steve, that's right.

Speaker 1: 42:39

So the Lord was discipled by Steve.

Speaker 3: 42:41

That's right. So the Lord did bring us back into ministry, discipling our own children and our children's spouses. Wow, I mean, daniel was in that group and Jesse Jesse was, she was a middle schooler, okay, or a high schooler, but I was discipling her and her. You know, becky and I were working with the young girls, young women, and we were discipling these young people. I mean many people, several people in our community, in our Christian community, were from that time period, and so I am super thankful that the Lord brought us on this journey and taught us how to walk with Him in a different way.

Speaker 1: 43:37

You guys would come to our little dumpy apartment. Um yeah, you guys would come to our our um little dumpy apartment. Daniel and I had his cruddy apartment and we would do worship meetings there and Steve would come and teach us the Derek Prince Bible studies. Oh yeah, we would go out and he at some point you guys had us preach on campus. That was terrible and we had you.

Speaker 3: 43:59

I mean it was good we had you sharing the gospel on Hillsborough Street, just walking down, just approaching people and saying, hey, are you a follower of Jesus? And you know, I remember one story where Andrea was doing that and she had been paired up with a young man that was one of your roommates and this young man himself was not a follower of Jesus, but we sent him out to go share the gospel with people, because that's what you do.

Speaker 1: 44:29

And so.

Speaker 3: 44:30

Andrea was sharing the gospel and he says, yeah, well, really, all you have to do is just be a good person. And Andrea looked at him and was like, no, no, that's really. That's not what it is okay.

Speaker 3: 44:46

Nobody's good. In fact, Nobody can be good enough. And if you live long enough, you'll realize nobody's good. What you have to do is recognize that you're not good enough and you have to give your heart to Jesus, because he's the only one who's good enough. And so she, while she was trying to share the gospel with people on Hillsborough street, wound up leading this young man that she was paired up with Sharing the gospel with. She led him to the Lord. That's so awesome and of course it. It didn't matter that was.

Speaker 1: 45:22

that was a yeah, I got one convert at least.

Speaker 3: 45:26

There you go.

Speaker 1: 45:27

The guy that you were sent out with. Yeah, that is funny.

Speaker 3: 45:31

And now Daniel and Chris can follow up and disciple him. I don't know if he was, you know, I think he really did get some. I can't remember who the exact guy was.

Speaker 1: 45:43

It could have been a few different people.

Speaker 3: 45:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:46

But yeah, that was a wild time.

Speaker 5: 45:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:48

I wasn't always the greatest candidate to go out and preach either. I remember specifically preaching on Hillsborough Street, witnessing to people on Hillsborough Street and then being inebriatedbriated the later that night.

Speaker 3: 46:04

Yeah, see, you needed a lot of grace from the Lord. Right, a lot of covering.

Speaker 1: 46:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:12

And now that I'm done, uh time to go back.

Speaker 1: 46:15

Let's go get some beers. Yeah, that was. Uh, that was an interesting time in my life. There was definitely a lot of grace over me. You know, yeah, but your ministry looked a lot more like probably the dentist.

Speaker 3: 46:28

Yes, it was. It was very simple. We were just working with young people who were willing to, even though they would fall and stumble, just get back up and keep walking with the Lord. I mean, half of it is just doing that right. Just keep going in the right direction. Keep your aim toward the Lord.

Speaker 1: 46:51

Fall forward, fall forward yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:56

When y'all moved to Raleigh. When did you guys, and real quick, how did y'all get connected to the Likens? How did your church house, church start? How did you get connected?

Speaker 3: 47:06

So we were worshiping. There was something called Worship in the Square. This was Seth Williams. Seth and Alicia Williams have they been on this podcast?

Speaker 1: 47:17

Nancy has, nancy has. Okay, nancy, she's talked about that.

Speaker 3: 47:21

Alicia's mom Dan and Nancy Nelson had a. They used to every Saturday night for a couple of years, maybe more. We would do worship outside in Moore Square in downtown Raleigh and it was rain, shine, cold, no matter what. We would just worship in the open air and people would, you know, kind of wander through, walk through, didn't know exactly what was going on, and some people, you know they, started to recognize us and we would pray for people. Many people would come that were homeless, needing prayer and we would pray for people. Many people would come that were homeless, needing prayer and we would pray for them and care for them.

Speaker 3: 48:08

There were people who were just going to a restaurant that were interested. So Steve and I would go, not every Saturday night, but most Saturday nights. We were there and one Saturday night Becky Lichen showed up. She and Scott were pastors in town about churching. Wow, cary Christian Assembly was the name of it and it wasn't in Cary, but anyway it had been in Cary at one point in Cary, but anyway it had been in Cary at one point. And Steve met Becky. They just struck up a conversation and it just felt like our hearts were instantly knit.

Speaker 3: 48:55

That was a sweet time and we just kept coming to worship in the square and meeting with them and then we both felt like the Lord was talking to us to do something that was a little different than most people are used to when it comes to church. We started a house church network where essentially, you're just meeting house to house and part of that sort of sprung out of the discipleship that Steve had done with these college guys and gals and so we some of the people who were either the parents or were not even all parents, but just people who were had come to worship in the square. We all started exploring this whole idea of doing Simple Church and at the same time we got involved with Tracy Evans. Tracy has been on this podcast and went with Tracy to Mozambique. In fact, that's another whole story that I'm not sure we have time for.

Speaker 3: 50:08

Tracy was seeking the Lord about where her next ministry assignment was, and she had been hearing from people in her home church that well, maybe you should consider Mozambique. And she said, well, I just need the Lord to almost have like a confirming word. I don't feel like Mozambique is. You know, that's not just who, that's just not who I'm drawn to. So she called Steve up and she had met Steve kind of randomly in a parking lot in Charlotte, thinking she was witnessing to him. And you know they just met. And then steve, she called him up and steve said hey, tracy, I've just been wondering, have you ever thought about going to mozambique? And she's like I wish you hadn't said that. And so she did go to mozambique and she has a ministry now in mozambique and she has a ministry now in Mozambique. And we started. We started taking teams there, some of these young people Chris went on that on a trip to Mozambique in 2002,.

Speaker 1: 51:12

I think and then the first one that you guys went on Yep and Andrea went twice Right Yep. So that during her, during your engagement period, she in mozambique with tracy, I think, or tracy was there part of the time yeah, that was funny because I was in sweden on study abroad, finishing my college in this beautiful like first world nation and andrea's literally sleeping on dirt floors in mozambique yes, stomping scorpions that could kill her before she goes to bed every night she visited the landfill in mozambique and like stomping scorpions that could kill her before she goes to bed every night.

Speaker 3: 51:41

She visited the landfill in Mozambique and, while she's there, people are shooting.

Speaker 1: 51:45

She's just way tougher than me in general, so that has been like kind of a theme through our lives.

Speaker 2: 51:51

If your places were so whopped, you might not have made it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:55

That's right.

Speaker 3: 51:56

Yeah, I'd have been dead in one place that we're sort of moving. We've been in a movement where we're focused on reaching unreached people groups. So our little house church. We looked around. It's like how many of you have been either on the mission field or feel like God's calling you to the mission field? And it was literally 100% of the people.

Speaker 3: 52:39

So if there was a theme in our little house church. There were two themes. One was reach out to the college campus and the other one was go on mission to reach unreached people groups wow so those were the two themes.

Speaker 3: 52:56

And then this little group came to town in 2013 or 14. We became aware of them and we started going to this. They were meeting in a middle school. Colby and Jennifer Lehman were there. They had just come off the mission field in Tunisia, so they were all about mission, all about missions to unreached people groups, and they had just stopped meeting at NC State. So they were reaching out to college campuses and going to unreached people groups and it's like aha, I think this is our tribe. And that was in 2013,. Like I said, I think, or maybe early 14. We just felt like the Lord put us together.

Speaker 2: 53:45

What was that transition like? To go from house church to getting back into?

Speaker 3: 53:54

It was a little jolting. A little jolting. We had become so used to worshiping in living rooms that when we had to go to a place where everybody's facing in the same direction and the worship is with people that are up on stage, I told Steve.

Speaker 3: 54:22

I said I feel like I'm going to a conference every Sunday morning, but when I see in scripture I don't see that it's either or and that was something we began to feel like, that the house church season in our life was so that we would understand what it really meant to meet house to house almost like an experiment, but that it was not to the exclusion of a larger gathered community.

Speaker 2: 54:51

Man I think that's such incredible wisdom.

Speaker 3: 54:54

Yeah, so when we heard that Antioch, we kind of heard this whole concept of five circles. We said five circles, what do you mean? Well, circle one was me and Jesus. Remember, in our early days, it's me and Jesus. What is Jesus saying to you today? You need to read the Bible every day, you need to pray every day. So there was the me and Jesus, and then we had been engaged pretty much all our life in discipleship groups. So the second circle is me and two or three others.

Speaker 3: 55:25

I mean, you see this in Scripture Jesus was very close with two or three guys, and that's more of a discipleship, a very trusted group of people that you can pour your heart out to. And then the third circle was the house church. Well, I mean, we've just been doing house church for 15 years. And then the fourth circle was a larger gathered community, like they did in the early church when they would go to the synagogue, and that we felt like was what the Lord was adding back into our lives with Antioch.

Speaker 3: 55:59

And then the fifth circle was, as a community, reaching out to the world. But we'd been doing that with both in the college campus and going to, you know, mozambique, and this was a group that really believed in all five dimensions if you will, of the community of the body of Christ, and we felt like man the lord's putting it all together for us here wow we, we see that we need.

Speaker 3: 56:26

We can't really just have one of these to the exclusion of the others. We really need all of them and, um, so we've been pursuing that and trying to, you know, make sure that we have elements of all of that. And you really cannot get away from that personal one-on-one daily walk with the Lord. I mean, you just cannot get away from it. But you also can't get away from reaching out and sharing your faith with people, whether that's with people next door or people across the ocean, and it probably needs to be both, and everybody can do it next door and there may be a time when you can do it across the ocean, but anyway, Wow.

Speaker 3: 57:17

I feel like the Lord has a new adventure for us. But it helps me to look back and sort of see where I've come from, because I didn't have any idea when I first started that this journey would have this many different waves to it, this many different aspects, this many different ways of seeing and understanding and walking with the Lord. And it really has been an adventure and I'm really thankful that we've had every season, that we've had even the painful seasons, the painful season of understanding that you really have to walk in gentleness and you can't. You know that painful season where we were kind of lost our way and lost our Christian community and the Lord was so faithful and kind to us and brought us back. That was very useful for us to remember.

Speaker 3: 58:20

When Steve and I were now the new pastors of this church at Antioch Raleigh, we had a very young staff who would look to us almost with too much reverence. You know, here we are in our 60s and most of these young staff are in their 20s or 30s and they are super respectful and think that you know they have to. So anything we say they're going to take, you know, very deeply to heart and man, I think when you have people surrounding you like that, you have to tread very lightly and gently and we even said it like we've been in business and the business world is not the church world and we need to be. We almost need to whisper when we say things to this group because it's going to reverberate through them in ways that we may not understand.

Speaker 3: 59:26

And I just didn't want to become those people who were, even without knowing it, coming across too harsh or too direct, without knowing it, coming across too harsh or too direct, and that is a little bit my personality, my bent. I'm pretty direct, so I had to soften that. I had to kind of let my friends the lichens, who are pastoral geniuses, help me with that. I would many times think, okay, how would Becky say this? How would she approach this approach?

Speaker 3: 1:00:22

this, so that the person would not even necessarily feel that they've been slightly corrected, but still would have a course correction that would be helpful for them. And I won't say that I could always pull that off, but just having that experience once in our life, it is so valuable. The difficult things we've gone through have been so valuable and I would not trade them. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1: 1:00:53

I mean, if you look at scripture, all the leaders it almost seems like they're training. The Lord sets them up with hardship.

Speaker 5: 1:01:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

Like David, you know it's like you're anointed to be king. Oh well, current king's going to murder you. You're on the run for years. Yes, right, like that's your training.

Speaker 3: 1:01:13

Yeah, watch out for spears. Yeah, because one's going to come at your head Exactly your training yeah, watch out for spears.

Speaker 1: 1:01:18

Yeah, because one's gonna come at your head exactly. So I mean and I mean countless examples of that- I mean one of the things. I'd love to for you to confirm this story, but I remember steve sharing with me years ago like that he, when you guys were at crossroads- church yes, and he felt like the lord told him to just pray for the preacher. Yes, and he would go behind stage and pray while the other pastor was preaching.

Speaker 3: 1:01:44

Yes.

Speaker 1: 1:01:45

And that was a season, right it was it was basically interceding for the leaders of your own community.

Speaker 3: 1:01:53

Yeah, I think that when you go into a community and you see people really laying down their lives and sacrificing even if you think maybe you could do it better you know your first step should be just to serve. You know, when we came to Antioch, we looked around. We were the oldest people in the crowd and we still are almost the oldest people in the crowd. And so then, in 2015, steve sold his business and felt that the Lord was calling him back into full-time ministry. That was a little bit more like what he had been in before. You know something that from the outside in, maybe did look like full-time ministry. And so he raised his hand and told Colby, I feel like the Lord's calling you back into full-time ministry. I don't know what it's going to look like exactly, I don't know where it is.

Speaker 3: 1:02:50

So we were exploring. Maybe he wants us to go work with Tracy in Mozambique, maybe there were two or three options on the table and Colby said Colby Lehman, the senior pastor at the time, said well, why don't you come and be my missions pastor? You seem like you're really into missions. And so we prayed about it and Steve felt all right, I will do that. Steve felt all right, I will do that. And here Steve is in his 60s serving a young man at that time in his 40s. So you might be tempted to think well, I know more about this than you, you just need to listen to me.

Speaker 3: 1:03:35

That is not the way the Lord does things. So the Lord spoke to him. You just need to listen to me. That is not the way the Lord does things.

Speaker 3: 1:03:43

So the Lord spoke to him. You just need to serve this young man, and that's what he did. He just served him, and I am very thankful that we've had some of the experiences in our life that showed us that you don't need to come in and seek the best seat and the high place. You need to go in ready to wash feet. And so I'll remind myself.

Speaker 3: 1:04:18

Recently I've been using this word. It helps me. I don't even think of myself as capable of strategy or vision. We need to have vision. So if the Lord wants me to cast vision, I'll cast vision. But it seems like the word of the Lord for me more recently has been for me to ask him what his assignment is for me in this season, and that is a way for me to keep my orientation correct so that I'm not coming in feeling like, well, I just need to be in charge. I've got more experience than all y'all. That is not the way the Lord does things. I need to seek him for what his assignment is for me because I am his servant and it's not the other way around, and I need to always keep that very clear in my mind. So it helps me to have the right language about it and it's for a season. You know you have an assignment for a season and that's helped me quite a bit, wow.

Speaker 1: 1:05:37

Well, I'm curious to ask you about what you feel like the next season is. But I have a question. As you kind of wrap up the portion of like origin to now, what has sustained your relationship with the Lord for these many years?

Speaker 5: 1:06:08

I go back to that little 12-year-old girl. I had a sense then and I have a sense now that the Lord is very interested in a one-on-one relationship with me. Which blows my mind. It just utterly blows my mind. It just utterly blows my mind. Who am I that he should be?

Speaker 3: 1:06:47

interested in me, except that he is. So I was looking, I was going to look at my phone. I have something written on the notes in my phone and in it it starts off, and I would encourage each person who hears this podcast to do this. I've got. Brenda, here's what I like about you. This is what I hear from the Lord. So if you can just write down the words Warren, here's what I like about you. Chris, here's what I like about you. Brian, here's what I like about you. We all know the Lord loves us.

Speaker 5: 1:07:38

Sometimes we don't know that he likes us, and what the Lord said to me was what he liked about me was that I take Him seriously.

Speaker 3: 1:08:08

I pay attention to him. I don't take him for granted. I wish that I could say that has been my walk all my life, but what has sustained me over the course of my life is to always go back to that. I take the Lord very seriously. He is the most important person in my life. I am blown away that he cares deeply about me. I have a sense of that, that he likes me, he likes being with me, he likes talking to me, he likes spending time with me. He doesn't like it when I just ignore him.

Speaker 3: 1:08:46

And if people if I think, if people can get, if a person can get a sense of that, then the whole idea of a personal relationship with God has meaning to it. And I don't know how you do this thing without a personal relationship, and I mean really a personal relationship relationship. So you know when the scripture says, pray without ceasing, I don't like get on my knees and have a formal prayer without ceasing. But my life has increasingly been one where I have conversations with the Lord and Steve will come in and he'll say who are you talking to? And about half the time you know he'll hear me mumbling or something. I hope I'm not the only person that mumbles to themselves. Sometimes I'll say well, I'm talking to myself, I'm just rehearsing something. But generally speaking, after I rehearse it a little bit, then I'm instantly saying okay, lord, what do you think about that? I'm kind of leaning Godward.

Speaker 3: 1:10:12

I don't know if that's the way to think about it. I'm just leaning Godward. He doesn't always speak to me as clearly. As you know, your husband, Steve Jellicorse, is going to be your husband. There have been a few instances like that. I have some supernatural instances where the Lord told me something and you know it did happen, but a lot of my life is pretty ordinary feeling and I have to.

Speaker 3: 1:10:48

Even when I don't necessarily feel like I'm hearing him, I have learned to know that his presence is still there and he does. He is with me. I take great comfort in the words I will never leave you or forsake you. I take great comfort in that, in that. So I have gone through enough in my life to know that this whole walk with the Lord is not about avoiding suffering, like I'm going to pray and God's just going to remove all the suffering from my life. It just doesn't work that way. In this life, you will have trouble, that's a promise. In this life, you will have trouble, that's a promise. But be of good cheer, you know so.

Speaker 3: 1:11:51

I think that we have a hope, as believers, because we know that the Lord is with us and will never leave us or forsake us. That is incredibly good. I mean that is incredibly good. I mean that is a good good deal that the people who don't have the Lord I could sense how that might leave people feeling a lot of anxiety. So that's what sustains me A sense of His presence, and not just His presence, but that he wants to be with me.

Speaker 2: 1:12:27

Hmm, that's beautiful Brenda, of course. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. You're welcome. It was an honor, Thank you.