Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone, this is Chris. I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast. The scripture, Revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Our hope is that as you listen, you will be encouraged in the Lord. This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him. We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives. Bruce King is in the house today. Bruce, I'm very excited to see what you have to share today. Heard your story a couple of times. It's always really powerful and impactful. We're joined in the studio with a new guest, an added guest. We have Chris, we have our producer, Warren and we have Brian Boswell, who also might just chime in randomly.

Speaker 3: 1:14

No, no, brian won't chime in randomly, he's very intentional.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Thanks for carving out time to do this. We really really appreciate it it good to be here with you guys I'm a little nervous so

Speaker 1: 1:28

I'm just going to envision you guys in your underwear that way I'll calm down, so that might make you more nervous. Yeah, actually, let's say you guys keep your pants on, man.

Speaker 4: 1:39

That's now. Now, I don't know where, I don't know what kind of interview this is.

Speaker 3: 1:45

What's the name of this podcast? Again, uncommon path that's sounding about right, right now.

Speaker 2: 1:51

So yeah, anyway. Uh, bruce, you've been married for 33 years. Yep, two girls, they're both married. Now that's right. Um, you have two son-in-laws.

Speaker 3: 2:05

I do.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Who are amazing guys, give us a fact about yourself that few people know.

Speaker 3: 2:14

I had to think about this. I speak fluently with squirrels. Really, they often ask me for fashion advice. It's really amazing. So I don't really have anything unique. I'm not that good, I just don't know. I really you asked that question, I was thinking about it. I'm like no, I don't have anything. I'm not that interesting, I don't know oh wow, that was not.

Speaker 2: 2:44

I was not expecting that.

Speaker 3: 2:46

Well, there's more where that came from you never know where I'm going.

Speaker 2: 2:53

But before we start, I do want to just share. One thing I love about you that I think you do really well, is that you have a lot of grace and a lot of patience for people, and I've seen you in very trying situations where someone wired like you would easily be impatient, and I've never experienced a moment where you are impatient, um, and so anyway, I admire that about you and I admire I really appreciate that my wife might disagree with you, so.

Speaker 3: 3:32

I might be, I'm probably more patient with other people than I am, in particular my wife, but I'm growing, I'm learning, so thank you for that. I receive that.

Speaker 2: 3:42

We want to know your story. How did your journey with the Lord start? Was it something that kind of changed in a moment, or was it a gradual thing? How did that happen yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:59

I was dating a girl. My family is just really broken. There's a lot of just chaos in my family growing up, not a lot of love and caring. Just to be honest, my mom's mentally ill. My dad is just a fantastic provider, but emotionally absent and a workaholic emotionally absent and a workaholic. And when you combine that with traveling around the world like I did growing up, it just there was just I never really felt deeply loved, if I'm being honest. And I started dating this girl and I went over to her house and their family like enjoyed being together and my family just yelled at each other and I thought, man, this is crazy being together and my family just yelled at each other and I thought, man, this is crazy. And uh, I thought, man, what is the difference here? Because I didn't even know.

Speaker 3: 4:51

Like this could exist, like peace and love. And the difference was jesus um, in hindsight, and there was a family friend. I'm an athlete, I've always been an athlete, and I, um, he was a former nfl football player. So I connected with him because I'm an athlete and he's a nice deadly guy. And right here on down, right on carry off Walnut street, there was tennis courts down there and he this is a great story he, he, he said you want to play some tennis? I go, yeah, no, he's probably a good 50 pounds overweight. He's smoking a cigarette on the tennis court. I'm in the tip top shape of my life and I'm I was a really good athlete and I'm like, oh, I want to beat this old man to death, like this is going to be. And he beat me like six, one, six one six one wow and uh, while he's smoking a cigarette.

Speaker 3: 5:41

Now I don't know if you can picture a guy you know tapping his, you know his cigarette in the middle of a and it was that was so embarrassed I was honestly just it, totally embarrassed.

Speaker 3: 5:53

And we sat down on the edge of the road and he said ruse, I can tell you're a little, a little upset because I was a bad loser. I still kind of in about I'm a bad loser, to be honest with you. And uh, and he said but you know, I just know you don't seem at peace and I want to talk to you and I want to talk to you about the peace Jesus can give you. And so, interestingly, I was like, oh, the Lord had been searching for me, he had been pursuing me Relentless purs relentless pursuit.

Speaker 3: 6:23

He was pursuing me and, uh, it was in that moment that I think I recognized the depth of my need for jesus and I wanted what they had, and and he gave it to me and that was the beginning of a journey. And, um, but one of the first things that came out of my mouth because I knew my dad's opposition to christianity was my dad's really going to hate me. He's going to hate me and you know, father, wounds are deep. Now there's going to be deeper rejection, uh, and that is a that was really hard. And in, uh, I went on to become really zealous young christian as, uh, I was sharing the gospel with anything that would move. And so I was like, all right, I'm still going to share the gospel with him. And he, he eventually said, yeah, I don't ever want to hear that again, I don't ever want to have this conversation again with you, and and so I never. I never have. My life has lived it out and I'm unashamedly who I am. But, yeah, actually, my wife will, actually he'll listen to her. He won't listen to me. But that was the beginning of the journey, I'd say.

Speaker 3: 7:38

I was discipled early on by a pastor at a church, unfortunately Early on, by a pastor at a church. Unfortunately he ran into some problems and discretions and I think that wounded me a little bit. And then, yeah, probably when I was, we'd moved to Benson and I was in the midst of just nothingness out in Benson, north Carolina, with my wife my new bride at the time and I was lost. I was honestly just lost. I was like Lord, why do you have me out here in the middle of nowhere, like I'm alone, like I had been surrounded by? I was really involved with Campus Crusade at NC State. I thought for sure I was going to be in full-time ministry. Now I'm working this hack job out in the middle of nowhere and I'm like Lord, where are you? And he subtly whispered to me where did you grow the most, bruce? What was going on? And I said, well, I was being discipled and I'd been discipled in college by a guy for probably three years. Like I said, I thought for sure I'd be in full-time ministry.

Speaker 3: 8:55

And when I graduated, the Lord was like no, no, that's not where you're headed, and it was a bit discouraging. But I'm out there and so I started praying. And so I started praying. This is where I started praying and I prayed a lot and I prayed for I think it was about two years and, yeah, I was honestly just saying, lord, bring this man to disciple me. I'm desperate because I'm dying over here. I went over to, I went in downtown. Benson was praying in the street. Lord, why am I here? I mean, I was pursuing him everywhere I could think of. I went over to Campbell University and I went on campus and there's a whole crazy story how I met JD Greer when he was in college and ended up attending a Bible study on campus, helping, and that just wasn't it. So finally I'm at this.

Speaker 3: 9:52

I'm over at a church here in Cary and this guy pushes a broom by me and the Lord's like that's the guy. So I follow him into a broom closet and I'm like hey, you're the guy. And he's like, uh, I don't know what's going on here right now. And I said we got to have coffee and um, and he's like okay, and so, uh, I uh had coffee with him and I told him this whole story, my two years in the desert trying to figure out, in um, how, how the Lord had spoke to me and he said I've been praying for you to come. Wow, he said I've been praying for you to come and um. So me and another guy I said it defeated Jesus with this guy, um, and he, he was just amazing. If you want me to get emotional, it's because that guy, he loved me like a son. He taught me what it meant to love Jesus, what it meant to walk with Jesus, to be bold for Jesus.

Speaker 3: 10:58

He asked me five questions. You've heard my five questions. If you want me to share them, I'm happy to. He would meet with me every week, without fail. He'd say how are you hearing God's voice? What scripture are you memorizing or reading?

Speaker 3: 11:16

And he'd say how does your wife feel loved and cared for and is there anything you need to go back and apologize to your wife for right now? My wife loved this guy, by the way, I bet. And then the last thing he did, which I was so grateful for and I don't say, changed my family dynamic in a lot of ways. He'd say how are you being intentional with your children right now? Dynamic in a lot of ways, he'd say how are you being intentional with your children right now? And so, week after week and year after year, when I had to answer these questions, I was being transformed by the renewing of my mind. He pointed me first to my horizontal relationship, which then poured out into my or excuse me, my vertical relationship, which poured out into my horizontal relationships and literally changed the trajectory of my life.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Um, yeah how old were you, bruce, when you're getting discipled by this guy? 30 started at 32 32, but you met the lord when I was 18, in 18.

Speaker 3: 12:21

Okay, I'd been discipled by and you're in college. Two men and I was in a real desert from about 20, probably 22 to 32. It was a long time.

Speaker 3: 12:35

And it wasn't like I wasn't walking with God, it's just I felt like I never had a direction or a place or a mission or a. I just kind of ambled. I'll be honest with you. I attended a church, but I'm not gonna say what the church was. I I didn't want to be there, didn't really like it, but it never. They never fed me, never encouraged me, and when I did um, when I tried to pursue that, uh, I just felt rejected. So I was in this like really hard place.

Speaker 3: 13:04

I never really felt like I was there.

Speaker 1: 13:08

This was when you were Benson.

Speaker 3: 13:10

No, I moved back to Cary. Moved back to Cary when I was 24. Had my first daughter.

Speaker 2: 13:18

I feel like in today's day and age there's so many people who want to be a lone wolf. When it comes to Christianity. You know like what was? I find it so unique and really something the Lord put in you, to want discipleship, because some people think they want it. But when it comes down to meeting with a guy once a week who gets asked hard questions, you kind of peace out. But then there's some that are like no, I'm, I'm fine being alone. Like what was the driving force in that?

Speaker 3: 13:52

I think when I was in college I tasted what just amazing community um, and being surrounded by people who can care for you. College is a greenhouse.

Speaker 3: 14:05

It's so easy to be a great Christian in college if you're in the right crowd. I don't mean that in the wrong way, because plenty of people go off left and right, and I did. I did frankly, but I just it's taste and see that the Lord is good and life is largely meant to be done in community and I think we would be missing something if we thought otherwise.

Speaker 3: 14:31

And if you haven't experienced that or you didn't, you're not. I'm a natural extrovert, so I always want to be around people. They're just going to shock you, I know, but so I think there was just a desire for that and to be sharpened. I really man, I was with some really sharp dudes in college and I was yearning for that, hungered for it, and so I was grateful that the Lord provided it in Dan Coucher and his wife Lois.

Speaker 1: 14:59

Bruce, what years were you at NC State? In Campus Crusade 87 to 92. Okay, yeah, a little bit before me. I was involved at NC State Campus Crusade from 99 to 03. Okay, when I went to NC State, mike Mahaffey was still there.

Speaker 3: 15:19

Mike Mahaffey, so that guy is like is he timeless or what Like? I even reached out to him when my daughters went to college.

Speaker 1: 15:26

So I love that guy. I think he's 150 years old. He's got to be I thought he was, but he looks perennially. I know 38.

Speaker 3: 15:33

I know it's crazy. He really is.

Speaker 2: 15:35

You know it's funny, so anyway yeah, well, so when that discipleship relationship started? Yeah, Well, so when that discipleship relationship started? Yeah, yeah, when did your? How did your marriage evolve? How? How were you evolving as a father?

Speaker 3: 15:50

So Dan, dan, dan started meeting with us and started really pouring into. There was two guys, me and another guy, and we met for years, for years. And finally Dan said you know why don't we go through this material? Um, it's intimate encounters, um, which my friend brian knows about, um, and so we started going through this material with him and his wife and I don't know, he found the uh, uh, he found, I think, every broken marriage he could find to bring together and he put us all in a room and said Jesus is going to show up, watch and see. And so we journeyed together for several years.

Speaker 1: 16:38

So I'm being discipled by him, which is just he was the guy with the broom closet.

Speaker 3: 16:44

Yes, okay, yeah, he's the room closet guy and he started discipling me and and another guy this is daniel coucher's dad, right yeah daniel coucher's dad. You know, I knew daniel coucher long before daniel coucher knew me, because we were praying for him a lot daniel coucher for listeners who haven't listened is former guest of this podcast.

Speaker 2: 17:04

Yeah, you should listen to it.

Speaker 1: 17:05

It's a great story yeah.

Speaker 3: 17:09

And so we started doing this marriage thing together, and so now I'm getting poured into, pouring out into my wife and now my kids. And now, right, I think the missing piece was learning to go deeper in my marriage even Because, largely, I was being a good Christian and I was learning to pray for my wife. But at the end of the day, I never had a good model for what a family looked like, what a good, healthy family looked like, other than this girl I dated in high school and saw what that could look like, and so, you know, dan started with that. But then, you know, as we started going through some of the material which we've now gone through several times with couples, is it digs deeper and it goes underneath some things and exposes the sand, the rock underneath the sand, and that's really where we go through an exercise at the end of the material, called a genogram, which Brian and I just facilitated last weekend with couples, healing exercise that we use perpetually. Now we've decided in the last two, three years we're doing it with every couple who journeys with us. We go through this and it uncovers generational sins, blessings, curses it, and we we spend three, four hours just pulling stuff out of you and it is raw. It's raw and, but we're able to pray over it. And then we do an exercise after that.

Speaker 3: 18:47

That is called a therapeutic writing exercise and it is where I first understood true forgiveness and healing and I didn't realize how deeply my mother wounds and my father wounds were so affecting my ability to heal. A marriage is only as healthy as the unhealthiest person and I was pretty sure I figured out I was that guy. I mean, my wife's broken, don't get me wrong, she's way off more awesome than I am, if you ever meet her. Brian shaking his head, yes, so it's a true statement. Um, but, but that is um I. I didn't realize how, um, how deeply, deeply broken I was from so many things. And to be free from that, I went from really hating my mom Like, like, when I say hating, like that's a real word to having compassion for her, because I understood her journey and her story of brokenness and how she was treated and largely she was treating me the same way. She had been treated and, as it turns out, my grandfather and my great-grandfather had been treated.

Speaker 3: 19:55

So, it landed on me and I said it stays here and it doesn't go any farther. And those, my kids and that my grandchildren, are our recipient of uh of that.

Speaker 1: 20:12

So that's a powerful, powerful thing yeah I have so much admiration for the generation, generation that breaks off the curses and the generational sin issues. Yeah yeah, In my own family that was my grandfather. Good for him.

Speaker 2: 20:34

Sorry, warren, what's his name?

Speaker 3: 20:36

What's his?

Speaker 1: 20:36

name. His name is Sherwood Sherwood Russell. Sherwood Love it. And he right where you played tennis. Yeah, In Cary. Yeah, he lived about a tenth of a mile from there right next to wall street. Yeah, exactly what's that and he he told this story to me when I was a kid that his his father.

Speaker 1: 20:59

Hey, they were really poor, lived out in bun tobacco farmers yeah and the neighbors thought they were so poor that I guess a neighbor bought him a new pair of overalls, yeah, and his alcoholic really harsh father ripped him off of him and said you know, we don't take any charity from anybody kind of thing, and that harsh and just bitter kind of alcoholic thing broke off at his generation. He's just like.

Speaker 1: 21:29

I'm following the Lord, and he was known in his community as the sweetest, most gentle person, and so I got the benefit of him. He broke that off. My dad grew up with this amazing, sweet, loving, gracious father. So good, I did as well, because he replicated the goodness of his own father. Yeah, so it's like what you have done is affecting your kids and your grandkids, but it's also just changing hundreds of thousands.

Speaker 3: 21:59

A lot it's changing the landscape of everything but it's so.

Speaker 1: 22:03

It's that's where, like all the friction is, it's like the momentum has to stop and then you have to start something new.

Speaker 3: 22:10

Yeah, I think to your point, awareness precedes change. And I wasn't aware, I didn't even know how broken I was until I went through this and, um, yeah, I look back now and I, you, you know, you go back to a high school reunion. I have no, you know, I have no idea what people thought about you until they tell you, like 25, 30 years later.

Speaker 3: 22:31

And they were like, because I was a wrestler in high school, God right, I was kind of mean. And they were like dude, you were intense, Like you were known as like this mean guy and I'm like, really it's because I just had all this pent up anger and just to your point, so, man, what a great story. I mean that you were freed in a similar way. So thanks for sharing that, because I don't know that I'll hear the story unless my grandkids grow up and I get a chance to hear that.

Speaker 1: 22:58

So guess that would be cool, because I'm the grand I'm the grandkid, yeah and my kids are the great grandkids. Yeah, so it works. Yeah, grace of god. Yeah, love covers a multitude of sins booze, what were?

Speaker 2: 23:16

what were? Uh, share the story about loving your wife.

Speaker 1: 23:21

Well, oh, yeah, oh yeah, I read that in the thing. Yeah, I'm just trying to tell ryan I did my homework, yeah, yeah, that was a very subtle way of saying that.

Speaker 3: 23:31

Yeah, yeah, um he just, he wants credit, man he wants credit.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Uh, I'm just trying to change my reputation, yeah, okay all right, I got you thanks for wanting to be here, chris. Yeah yeah, there's a room. There's a nasty rumor going around that I don't want to be in my own house doing this that's funny yeah so.

Speaker 3: 23:55

So, dan, one of the questions was you know, um, what do you do that makes your wife feel loved and cared for? How are you making your wife feel loved and cared for? And one of the things that I was like you know, uh. So I asked my wife. I went that's a dangerous question. Uh, what is it I do that makes your wife feel loved? Because you got to be committed to that answer like, if you don't do it, like you just lost, like you got no credit, you got no credibility.

Speaker 2: 24:26

This shows how much growth I have in me. Yeah, that's like that's. That's something I would receive in discipleship. I would not ask my wife that question because I know I would be on the hook oh yeah, claiming ignorance is no longer an option.

Speaker 3: 24:39

Yeah, yeah, that's right so my wife lovingly said I really love it when you make breakfast in bed for me. And so I was like all right, I'm going to relentlessly pursue my wife's heart. And for years and years it was many years, it was over 10 years I pretty much made her breakfast in bed every day. I would take coffee, I'd make her bacon and eggs, oatmeal, whatever she wanted. I'd get up extra early to do it. I'd bring her coffee and she would lay in bed and she'd hear me coming up the stairs and she'd fluff up her pillow and she'd smile real big and I'd hand her her coffee. And then I'd hand her her breakfast. And yeah, what did I?

Speaker 4: 25:30

what is it?

Speaker 3: 25:31

right. Consistency over time breeds trust and respect, and I got to tell you that's true of anything consistency over time. But particularly in my marriage, I was proving I was not the guy I used to be, and I did it like in a lavish way, like if you think I'm gonna quit tomorrow, I'm not quitting more, I'm gonna keep going and I'm gonna keep going. And it wasn't until, honestly, that she stopped working, which was only about five, six years ago that, uh, I did it for a long time and and gratefully and lovingly.

Speaker 3: 26:04

um, yeah, and you want to. If you want to remove barriers and build your marriage in a really strong and healthy way, just over, serve your wife in a way that makes her feel loved and cared for. It's not magic, it's consistency over time and a commitment to say I love you and I will love you lavishly. Wow, she would sit here and tell you that story from her perspective and she's like why aren't you still doing it, right?

Speaker 1: 26:29

So but I'm hoping and I do every once in a while.

Speaker 3: 26:33

No, don't get me wrong, but once she stopped working, our schedules changed, and it was. It was a different story, so but, I, do I do every once in a while treat her to that. So that that was how many years ago, up until about probably five, six years ago.

Speaker 2: 26:49

And you started 15 years before that. Yeah, 21 years.

Speaker 3: 26:52

Probably in 2010.

Speaker 2: 26:57

So what kind of journey did the Lord take you on, Like after being in the middle of that discipleship, loving your wife more deeply, loving your family more deeply? How did the Lord take you deeper?

Speaker 3: 27:10

Yeah, I think it was one day the Lord was. It was clear to me the Lord wanted me to step out and do my own thing in terms of discipling other men. And so I just told Dan. I said, dan, I think it's time to step out and do my own thing in terms of discipling other men. And so I just told Dan. I said, dan, I think it's time. And so I moved out from under Dan's straight discipleship on a very distinct basis, and it was 2000, I forget. It's been a while now he passed away.

Speaker 3: 27:50

I remember where I was at when Daniel called me and the Lord had been inviting me into doing more discipleship with men. And so I started just, it's the craziest thing. It's not crazy when you think about it now, it's spirit-led. But I would I'd literally just pray and I'd say, lord, bring men. And then I would, just as I would meet men, I'd be like, oh, there's a guy. I'm like, okay, oh, there's another guy. And then I'd just get them all in a text and say we're going to meet at this place at this date. I'll see you there. And we would meet for a season. And then I'd be like, all right guys, we're done. And then I would just do that over and over and over again.

Speaker 3: 28:36

And then in the midst of that, sometimes the wives of. What I've learned you want to hear a great, this is a. This is one of bruce's truths I've learned is, if I can get the men engaged, the wives will follow. They want, they want that, they see it and they're like whatever's going on there, I, I want some of that too. And so what we've noticed is, if we can get the men engaged, we can stand up a couples group pretty easy and they want to go through the material together. Who doesn't want a better marriage? Like, raise your hand if you don't want a better marriage, that's you know. And so we would lead them through the intimate encounters, material and um, actually some semblance of that group that I started with dan back in um. Now I'm leading on wednesdays, so we still meet for so many years wow they're part of our.

Speaker 3: 29:28

Yeah, I just don't believe. My kids asked me for one piece of advice when they got married. I go, that's simple, really simple. Surround yourself with other couples who can love you and be honest with you and be transparent with you and call you out um, when you need to be called out and you have a safe place to to do that community like there's. There's the obvious we'll love jesus and certainly do that, but that accountability with people who you love is so. We've started to do more of that.

Speaker 1: 30:01

I don't know how far you want me to go with this, but how long have you been discipling all these people?

Speaker 3: 30:07

Oh, it's not even well. It's just various groups and couples that come along oh man, I don't even know Over the course of the years, probably since before Dan died. So mid-2000s, 2015,. I think is when he passed away, so it was before that, and it's just been little couples or groups that come through, and you know we do that.

Speaker 2: 30:39

I think that's so unique because you get you get so many different perspectives on discipleship right. Oh yeah, you get, you get yeah you get you get the people who pray for the people to come to them and they just show up. And then you get the people who are like, hey, you got to want it, so you got to show up, you know, or you got to, you got to show me that you want this because, my time is precious, you know, and it's like it's both, and there's a tension there has there been?

Speaker 2: 31:12

have there been times, like in discipleship relationships, where the Lord's like pivoted you one way and then another way, or has it always for you just been you and the Lord, just kind of free flowing?

Speaker 3: 31:24

Yeah, I love that question, Ryan, that's a really good question. I actually have bandied that same question about with my pastor at church, that same question about with my pastor at church, a guy a couple weeks ago at Soli. It's both. It's both. It's praying for them to come and then be attuned to who that might be. They might not even know, they don't even know sometimes that I'm praying for them or that this is what's happened. And then there are other people who reached out to me Over the years. And then there are other people who reached out to me Over the years. I spent a lot of time with dudes who I sit for a year with them and there is no fruit, like nothing.

Speaker 3: 32:03

And I'm like, yeah, I'm done with this, like this is why am I doing this? I come up and I hear the same thing. I don't see any movement, and so I think the Lord has probably pushed me in more of a direction of. My. Time is precious, to your point. I don't have a whole lot of it and I want to.

Speaker 3: 32:23

I want to invest where there's a deep well to be drawing water out of yeah and and so for me now, sometimes guys will reach out to me and I wait to see if they're going to reach out again or again. If they're really pursuing, then I'm like I will, and maybe I shouldn't say this on the podcast, but I will give you my time if you are willing to pursue the relationship in that way always, always, um.

Speaker 3: 32:52

But if you know, a lot of people get like, oh, I'm really excited and I want to do this. Right, there's a that's it's like to be an apprentice to jesus, is it's not easy? It's not easy, no, it's not easy. Yeah, and I don't. I only have so much time and so much space to invest and I want to invest where I believe the Lord is moving. I don't want to do that. If I don't see it or experience it, I don't have time. There are other people who are waiting in line. I know there are.

Speaker 3: 33:34

I'm sure all of you probably have men who are waiting in line. If you really just cast a short net out there, They'd all say man, put me in coach has there on discipleship, has there like is it also like for you, is it also?

Speaker 2: 33:52

hey, there's a specific amount of time we're going to meet. We're going to do this for three months, or whatever.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Or is it like?

Speaker 2: 33:58

sometime prolonged, like how does that work for you?

Speaker 3: 34:02

So with Dan it was kind of this like thing that we just did. It was very organic. I'm not a high structure guy. My friend Brian knows that I'm very more spirit led and where's the Lord leading us now. But I'm just the older I get, the more I realize people need more structure. And so at church we had a thing called Leadership Development Group and it was taking men through a pretty intensive, like a nine-month journey together as a cohort and it was really good, saw a lot of fruit out of that. But I just didn't think there was enough time spent with those men to one. They all have come back at one point or another and said, man, I'm so grateful for that time together. I'm like, oh, me too, I treasured it. But I started praying with the Lord and I'm like nine months isn't enough. And he said and I asked the Lord like, well, how many men is it and how long? And he said, well, how many did Jesus disciple? And I'm like that was 12 men, lord.

Speaker 3: 35:07

I don't have time for 12 men. And he said but he had Peter, james and John. And so I was like, okay, I, I can disciple three men. And then I'm like, well, how long should it be lord? And he said, well, how long did jesus?

Speaker 3: 35:22

do his deception. He said three years. I said so, all right, so that's what he did three men, three years. And so I started praying about it. And um, there's a guy this is you want to? This is a god story here. This is really cool. So I'm at disney world and I get this like random text while I'm at disney world in like a december, and this guy reaches out to me no like name on it says and this is right after my revelation of three, three men, three years. But I, I'm like Lord who, and I get a text while I'm at Disney World and this guy goes hey, bruce, do you know where I can be discipled?

Speaker 4: 36:02

Wow and.

Speaker 3: 36:03

I was like, oh Lord, here you go again. So I'm like so pumped, I'm like Yvonne, you're not going to believe what just happened. And so I reach out to him. I go, I'm at Disney, but we're going to get together when I get back. So in January of three years ago, I got on the phone with him and I said, look, this is not going to be a joke, Like we're going to rock and roll for three years. Like, are you in or out? He goes oh, I'm all in, I go, okay, great. So I'm telling the story. What I've learned is the more I invite I tell stories like this and invite people into the conversation around what God's doing me they are now looking for people and looking. It's like God multiplies the efforts.

Speaker 3: 36:54

And so I'm telling the story over and over like three men, three years and my son-in-law. I noticed he kept like man, that's you know, like you want to be involved in this buddy. And he's like, oh, that'd be so great. And I'm like awesome man, there's nothing better than being able to meet with your as one of your guys you meet with is your son-in-law.

Speaker 3: 37:15

I get to journey with him. He's just an awesome guy. And then I went to lunch with this other guy who was in one of the marriage things we premarital and were part of his marriage journey, salmon Show. And sure enough, he brought his business partner, who's sitting at. He's from from columbia, columbia central.

Speaker 3: 37:42

I don't know if that's south america, south america. He's from columbia and I'm telling the story of three men. I don't even know this guy. I know who he is, but I'm telling the story to this guy that I know and I'm like three men, three years. And this guy looks at me and goes I want in, can I be in? I'm like, first of all, I don't even know you. We should probably pray about this and just think about what could happen here. And um, and honestly, I let it go, I let it go and he kept, he let it go, I let it go. And he kept, he kept pinging me and I'm like, all right, I got a live one. So I was like why don't you come sit down? And I was like tell us your story, who are you? And um, so yeah, we coming up here, right here in march. Now will be three years.

Speaker 3: 38:28

Holy cow, yeah wow and journey with these guys wild, yeah, so that so that just happened.

Speaker 2: 38:37

March three years, march three years.

Speaker 3: 38:39

Oh wow, that's so wild. Yeah, so I've started to share with them. Uh, and we need to start praying about now. You're going to go do this, it's your time to journey with three men for three years and, um, wow, I don't have this like amazing curriculum. I have a framework, but, uh, I, largely I'm not a big high structure guy, my friend trogg, does a great job with that. I'm you know that's so cool walking along with that so what do you get into?

Speaker 1: 39:11

obviously you have marriage you've touched on that but like you got three years with three men, yeah, you know it's largely a journey of how do we apprentice to Jesus?

Speaker 3: 39:26

What's God teaching you? What are we? What are we? What are you struggling with? We need to pray for you for? Would you talk about your marriage One to 10, how are you struggling with? We need to pray for you for? Would you talk about your marriage One to 10, how are you doing? Emotionally? It's trying to care for their hearts to be honest with you and then allow them to honestly. If you watch me do what I do, you're watching Dan Coucher and I'm a mirror image of that guy, of what he did. Daniel will say sometimes, man, it's scary how much you sound like my dad, and that's what, right, that's what a rabbi is. If you had the dust of your rabbi on you, that meant you were a lot like your rabbi and so not that I'm a rabbi, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 4: 40:12

Um not that I'm a rabbi, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 40:17

From a discipleship perspective, you you're largely. When they start repeating back to me what, what I've been saying to them, then I know they're hearing.

Speaker 1: 40:22

So it's like the term Christians means little Christ's right, yeah, imitators.

Speaker 3: 40:31

Yeah, that's right. Imitate me as I imitate him A little imitators.

Speaker 2: 40:35

Yeah, that's right. Imitate me as I imitate him. You have such an intimate depth with the Lord. Would you mind sharing kind of the journey you went through when you got hurt on that race?

Speaker 3: 40:47

Yeah, so I was an endurance athlete for a few years, and so I'd been training for this big run you did it, you did iron mans right and yeah, I've done.

Speaker 3: 41:00

I've done several iron man uh events and, uh, I just told my wife recently I think I have one more in me. I'm I'm well past my prime now, but um, but yeah. So I was training for an event, so I was in really good shape and I'd gone for a run and all of a sudden I stepped off a curb as I was running and I had this incredible pain in my neck.

Speaker 3: 41:26

Like I was disoriented. I was in so much pain I couldn't find my car. I finally found my car. I drove home and I realized I couldn't grab the doorknob. My wife was out of town. I called my daughter and she took me to the ER and they were like yeah, the orthopedic surgeon wants to see you on Monday. I called on Monday.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Dan had just died, so it was the Monday.

Speaker 3: 41:58

His funeral was Tuesday or Wednesday, holy cow. So sunday morning I get a phone call. So now I'm like super injured and I'm in a lot of pain. You know, they gave me pain medication and so, uh, they were like, yeah, if you don't have surgery in the next couple of days, you will actually lose function of your left arm. You've got a pinched nerve and it's bad. He's like I see very, very few of these cases on an annual basis.

Speaker 3: 42:21

So, um, I spoke at dan's funeral like I don't remember what I said, that wasn't so much. And the next morning I, I was in surgery and so I came home and I, I, just, I was really in a you know, I don't know, I don't know how to put it. I was in a kind of a weird state and so I sat in this chair in my living room, a lounger, um, and I said I'm not, I'm not going to watch TV, I'm not going to let anything distract me, and I pretty much rehabbed, which meant I couldn't even I could run 20 miles without breathing hard and I couldn't even walk to the end of the driveway. So I was really struggling and he stripped me of all of this physical building. He's like what's left and it's me. All of this physical building is like what's left and it's me. And so I sat in this chair and I literally prayed, read scripture, listen to sermons, prayed, read scripture, listen to sermons. Walk to the end of the driveway, prayed, listen, listen. That's all I did, and For how long? For a couple of months.

Speaker 3: 43:36

Wow, yvonne would. She would come home and I would worship. I'd be praying, worship music, and I mean I was just when you got nothing else to do and you can't really go anywhere. Man, I was like, oh, this is amazing. I was experiencing this incredible growth spiritually. And Yvonne would come home because she was worried about me. I mean, that's my wife, she loves me. She'd come in the door and I'd be like, in the middle of this amazing worship time I'd be like, finally, I'm like she did it after a few days. Finally, I'm like, sweetie, can I say something? Because I love you and you know how much I appreciate you caring for me, but I am by myself. But I am by myself, but I'm not alone and I'm good, like, I know you want to rush home to meet me but honestly, you're kind of interrupting my time with the lord and she was like, she was like oh yeah, I know right, I'm like she's like huh, okay, so then she's like you know.

Speaker 3: 44:32

Now she's really like you know, such now she's really like.

Speaker 2: 44:35

you know Such a polite way to tell a wife back off. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 44:39

It's like you know, but I'd never experienced. I mean, how often do we get an opportunity to just be like that intentionally? And if you could ask me like I would go back and sit in that chair Like unabatedabated, with nothing. I couldn't do anything. My boss cut me off from any email at work. They basically said you need to go heal. Wow, it was an incredible season. Wow, that's wild.

Speaker 2: 45:13

Yeah, I did not realize that that also happened right around dan's death. Yeah, so it's like the lord stripped you physically yeah of everything and then said you're no longer yeah okay you know, bruce.

Speaker 1: 45:29

What was different about that time than the time? And in benson, where you're in your desert season? Yeah because both you're kind of got this isolation yeah, but one was like desert, the other was like pleasant valley mountaintop.

Speaker 3: 45:48

right, you're right, he is good. That was really good man. Yeah, I think the difference was my maturity. I think the difference was my maturity. I didn't know what to do in the desert, to be honest with you, and I knew exactly what to do when I sat in that chair. I was not even hesitating to. I couldn't do that when I was 21, 22. I wouldn't have. I wasn't mature enough to get that.

Speaker 1: 46:19

So if somebody because these seasons come in our lives right, it's like if somebody's in one or on the verge of one like what would you tell them to thrive in those times? What would you tell them to do or not do?

Speaker 3: 46:32

Yeah, man, you talk about seasons. What would I say? Can I tell a story? Of course, okay, um, when I graduated with my, my mba, so I I'm in this, let me.

Speaker 3: 47:00

Let me go back up. I'm living up, I'm living in chaos, with no Jesus, and I didn't even mention like I'd loaded a gun and put it in my head. I was just such such despair, right. And and then I find Jesus and then I'm in this season of this, really this green lush like springtime in college. And then I'm in this season of this, really this green lush, like springtime in college, and then I go into a summer or a really dry season of nothingness and trying to figure out who I am. And then I graduate with my MBA and I actually had the rights to like Jersey Mike subs, like 10 Jersey Mike subs in Richmond.

Speaker 3: 47:40

So I partnered with this guy. It's a long story, turns out. He looks good on the outside but he has no money and I'd invested everything I had. And that same season my daughter got cancer, so I'm in a failed business venture. My daughter got cancer, so I'm in a failed business venture. My daughter has cancer and my wife and I are in the midst of that and the reason I'm like that was a winter season, for me.

Speaker 3: 48:09

That was a winter, cold, bitter winter, and Yvonne and I, in the midst of that, that journey, we were pretty down, I'm not gonna lie. I mean you lose basically all your money and and now we're trying to figure out our daughter's sick, we're trying to figure out life. And we said, you know what we're going to do. We're going to look for the blessings in the midst of this darkness. We're going to look for it. We're going to with everything we've got.

Speaker 3: 48:45

And here's what I would say is, in the midst of any seasonal change, I'm always looking for the blessing in the midst of whatever season I'm moving into, because there's going to be a new season. I'm moving into a new season, like right now, which I'm sure we'll get to, but we're always moving in or out of one season or another, but the constant in there is Jesus, his faithfulness, his goodness. Whether it's darkness in the midst of trying to help a child through cancer, we saw the good things when we were looking for him. It's what I'm looking for in the season and so that really has served me well. In or out of seasons is where am I seeing God's goodness and his faithfulness? It's that learning to be content in any area situation that Paul talks about.

Speaker 3: 49:35

It's trying to figure that out and look for it. And if you're in a season of harvest, man, celebrate the season of harvest, and when you're not in a season of harvest, look for God's blessings in the darkness because they will light up. You know that was the first time. This is the first time. This is a great story. My father-in-law it was the first time I ever heard him say I'm praying for you never went to church. He went to church as a kid quit going. A number of reasons why, but it's the first time in the midst of that season, when my daughter was sick, that he said I'm praying for you. Never really said much spiritually and just a few years ago he, he got saved and I believe, I believe with everything in my being that that his that light.

Speaker 3: 50:30

We got lit in a dark season in our lives because he had somewhere to turn to in there and he didn't even know really. But it would be 30 years, almost 30 years later. Wow, he would see, grow, know, and yeah, he, yeah, wow, see, you don't know in the darkness what the, what the light is, but it, it bore fruit. Many years later, 25, 26 years later, Wow, that's incredible.

Speaker 1: 51:05

That is an incredible story.

Speaker 3: 51:07

It's only upon hindsight that you usually see this stuff.

Speaker 1: 51:11

Have you ever heard the term? There's no foxhole atheists. Yeah, yes. Sometimes, when things get dark, is where those people who are really resistant to the lord finally are just like okay, will you pray for me? Like yes, god, what are you doing? And it's just like that's literally what happened to him?

Speaker 2: 51:33

yeah, literally what happened to him, brian.

Speaker 3: 51:36

Brian was there yeah, wow that's I love.

Speaker 1: 51:41

That's the story of my own father actually. Wow, yeah, my whole life. He wasn't a christian. He grew up as one yeah backslid and then gets dementia early 62, 63, yeah, and as he's losing his ability to think, speak like all his memory, all that stuff, he, he starts to be like hey, like pray for me, and I could see a softening yeah oh yeah, he had a firm resistance to the Lord.

Speaker 1: 52:19

Oh yeah, like you, like your dad actually. Yeah, um, I didn't want to interject then, but like I remember telling my dad I was going on a mission trip and he's like you're caught up in lies, man, you do what you want, but I'm not going to stop you, but you're just and uh, but he he actually when when his only words left were yes and no.

Speaker 1: 52:48

He said yes to the lord praise god with with one of two remaining words he had before dementia took him all away. Yeah, so there is nobody who's too far gone, right, like, like, even your own dad, like there's God's got. Jehovah Sneaky has got something planned. Jehovah Sneaky, you know that's really good. I'm going to steal that.

Speaker 3: 53:06

Totally thieving. Jehovah Sneaky.

Speaker 1: 53:10

Yeah, that is good.

Speaker 3: 53:12

Yeah, you know it's interesting you mention that because I do pray for my dad and I do believe with everything in my being that god can save him. I I unequivocally believe it, even though there's no evidence for me to to know it. But I believe he can't and I think he might be down to a yes or no before he does that. So thanks for sharing that story.

Speaker 2: 53:33

You've just given me even more hope, so thank you absolutely well, I want you to share the story about because I've seen. I think the first time I met Mark was when he was engaged to your daughter. I think his first solely business was my first solely business, I think.

Speaker 3: 53:57

It's kind of a prerequisite if you're my son-in-law 2018 or 19,.

Speaker 2: 54:10

one of those but um, I was I. One story that blew my mind was when you took your other future son-in-law on a trip with you and your wife for your anniversary. Yeah, share why and how that came about.

Speaker 3: 54:24

So my wife and I have been working with married couples for a number of years and what we're finding is a lot of couples don't have a great model for what a healthy marriage looks like, and so they carry into the marriage like and it's so. They carry into the marriage both. Both of them have different versions of what what they think a good, healthy marriage looks like, because it's all they knew. And so I I started thinking about it and I was like you know what? How do I, how do I try and give my kids something better, what that that I've learned? And so I went to my wife and I said look, let's you know, on our anniversary every year, we sit down and we kind of do a retrospective what have we done that we've seen, that God is doing, that has been good this year. What is it that we were like man, our marriage and sort of our relationship, like where have we struggled this year? And there might even be things where we said you know what we used to do these things, what do we need to bring back into this season with us that we need to resurrect? And so I was like you know what Yvonne direct right? And? And so I was like you know what, yvonne? Like, our kids don't even have a clue about what that looks like for us.

Speaker 3: 55:48

So let's bring bailey and noah, my, my youngest daughter, and her husband. Let's bring them on our anniversary dinner. We'll feed them dinner and we'll just do our thing, and then we'll give them a chance. We're and so that we did. We're like here's what we did. Now you guys do it. And so we had them go through that same exercise in their own little relationship and what they were doing. And the point was we want to model this for you, because we want you to learn what we've learned already, when you don't even know what we're doing. We didn't have. We had to figure this out like this isn't something we just started doing. It went wow, this has really been good for our marriage. So we want you guys to at least have something to work off of for your. It's a model. It's not this isn't how you do it, what you do it. It it's you got to do something, and that's really what I was hoping for is to share that with them. So they did so well.

Speaker 4: 56:45

I was so proud of them.

Speaker 3: 56:48

They did so well. I'm not surprised, but yeah, so it was kind of a fun moment. But you know, again we're just like how do we continue to model for our kids? What does that look like? How do we invite them into that?

Speaker 4: 57:05

I don't want them to.

Speaker 3: 57:07

I don't want to have them figure out the hard way they're all going to figure out enough things the hard way without me at least trying to help.

Speaker 2: 57:14

So what is the Lord doing this past year? Yeah. And what's he got on the horizon? Yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:29

So I think I mentioned when I left college. I thought for sure I'd be in full-time ministry and the Lord was like no. And I've continued to put my yes on the table. And for a long time, for a long time, I've literally been saying, lord, if this is the year you want me to step out, then I will.

Speaker 3: 57:56

And about probably about three, four years ago I was really angry I'll get to your answer but I got to tell a story, because that's who I am, and I was really angry that the Lord hadn't, that my church wouldn't, let me be involved in the men's ministry. I was pretty frustrated and I took a bow for the lord and he said, yeah, uh, sit down, be quiet, listen. If I want you involved in the men's ministry, I'll, I'll invite you into that conversation, otherwise you just sit and listen. So I was like I want, I've been at full peace. I was full peace, I went home, I told you I was like the lord said. The lord impressed upon me that that's not where he wants me to be, so we'll sit, sit and listen. So all of a sudden the Lord just started bringing couple after couple after couple. I mean it was really incredible at the number of people that just started coming our way.

Speaker 3: 58:48

It was just incredible. And I could tell you even more stories, but I won't because I want to get to the finish line here. And so I was on a. I was meeting with my friend, thomas Maldonado, who's been with you guys. I love Thomas and him and I were meeting involved. We were just journeying through life together, right?

Speaker 3: 59:11

And I said, thomas, something's going on here, man, and he's like, well, like what's going on? And I'm like what are you going to do about it? And I was like I don't know. But whatever's happening is going to happen in January. This is like November. And I was like whatever it is, it's going to be in January. He goes dude, that's like two months away. I go, yeah, he goes, what is it? I go I had no idea. And so early December comes around and I start sharing my heart. The Lord's doing a new thing. And this guy on the call he's out in California sends me a text. I was telling him about this whole idea that marriage, something was going on. He sends me a text. I get the text. I don't even know what it is. I click on the link, I just register. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2: 59:54

No idea, he sends you a link, sends me a link and I'm like I have no idea what I'm doing here.

Speaker 3: 59:59

So I get a call the next day from a guy out in California who I knew was really involved with Soli. Got there, he helped start it and he goes Bruce. I go hey, les, what are you doing? He goes Bruce, man, like what are you doing? I go what do you mean? And he said do you even know what you signed up for? I go nope. So here's my story, what God has been doing, and I'm putting my yes on the table until he tells me no, I'm just keeping. I'm going to put yes, don't know what I just did. He goes well, listen, I got 85 people on this waiting list, but the Lord has really put it on my heart for you to come to our next retreat. I really want you to come to this. I go okay, when is it? He goes January. Wow, and I was like awesome, I'm there. So we flew out to California. One of the host team members dropped out, so we ended up being host team for the weekend.

Speaker 3: 1:00:56

No idea what I'm doing with those guys. And then we had our first retreat. We came back to North Carolina, had our first retreat in May, and then we had the following retreat in January the following year, 2024. And you know, we see God moving. My friend, brian, over there with you, and his wife were in that second retreat. They're now part of our host team and that's where we started Renewed Hearts and renewedheartsorg for anybody who's listening and yeah, Put a plug in that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:37

What do? Who is it gauged towards? Is it for broken marriages or good marriages, and is there a lineup how you get signed up and where it?

Speaker 3: 1:01:50

is yes. So if your marriage is healthy, like again, who's signing up for? I want to try and help my marriage. And then, you know, certainly broken marriages, I, you know, I think our marriage, if we get up underneath it, we're honest, it probably is a little more broken than we think. It is Largely from neglect, from it's just being intentional, learning to be intentional in your marriage, right. And then so, yeah, you, you basically on our website, you can go and just send an email to yvonne. It'll say yvonne, at renewed heartsorg, send us a, send us an email and we've got a waiting list.

Speaker 3: 1:02:30

We started to add people to a waiting list and, um, it's multi. The retreats anyway are, um, two kinds of retreats there's. There's one where we just do a weekend retreat. You come, you want your marriage refreshed. We only take four couples. It's pretty the word I, my friend Mike Gozen, likes to call it my intensive weekends. Brian will have to attest to whether they're intensive or not. I think they are pretty intensive actually, but it's good just to bolster your marriage, connect with the Lord. We really try and get people to connect spiritually, emotionally and, I'm sure, some physically.

Speaker 2: 1:03:11

So rumor has it. I mean, when you work on those other two, the third usually follows. Yeah, that is such a true statement.

Speaker 3: 1:03:22

And so long story short, and we have a cohort. My friend Brian suggested gosh. This was really good. I feel like we need to do something longer than just this one weekend. So we started a cohort and I honestly think that's where deeper change occurs over time. Again, consistency over time breeds results. It's not magic, but are you committed to it? And we've seen couples just go through an amazing journey, and so it's not even public yet there are a very small number of people and the Lord has called Yvonne and I, uh called me in particular um to step away from my job and pursue this, uh, as vocational ministry, and um, so I'm excited because I finally got a yes from the Lord. Um, to be honest with you, you put a yes on the table long enough. He's eventually. I'm like that.

Speaker 3: 1:04:19

You know that lady who keeps that lady who keeps knocking on the door or pleading or whatever it is, and so he's, yeah, and it's been. Yvonne and I fasted and prayed about it in last October and we worked through some things, through some things, and we've had gracious people like, um, my friend brian over here and his wife autumn, who have come alongside us. Thomas and elena have participated with us and we look forward to them participating more too. And but, yeah, um, and brian probably has some thoughts on this, but he leaned in. I noticed he leaned forward.

Speaker 2: 1:04:56

I don't know if he was brian, you feel like he wanted to jump into it and has.

Speaker 3: 1:05:00

he's going to ask me a hard question right now.

Speaker 4: 1:05:02

So no, I would just like for you to share, maybe, some of what you're feeling when it comes to yes. You've been putting your, your, your yes on the table for a long time and this is something that's really kind of ingrained in your heart, something that you care about, something you're passionate about. But if you would, could you talk to us about what are you feeling as it's coming time of? You also are very good at what you do, and you've been doing that for a very long time, and this is a company that you've kind of put blood, sweat and tears into, something you're passionate about. Can you just walk us through kind of what you're feeling in regards to leaving that one thing and then embracing this new thing that God has for you?

Speaker 3: 1:05:51

Yeah, no, that's a great question. I'm not surprised Brian asked me Great question. You know you asked about seasons and I think right now it's still so new to me, so fresh, that I'm moving, that I haven't really had a chance. But I think there are times when we have to grieve the loss of things we've had. We've had, and, uh, so I don't think I've grieved the loss of of. You know what I'll call my career, my professional career. Um, god has blessed me tremendously and I'm grateful, um, for the family that owns the company and just what. You know what I've been doing, um, so I think I'm probably not yet grieving the loss of who I was, but I am thoroughly excited and terrified at what god is doing and, and you know, um, what is it uh james clear, with atomic habits, says you're casting a vote for the person you're becoming every day, and so I think the lord has been having me on a journey of the person he wants me to become every day.

Speaker 3: 1:07:05

Again, consistency over time. And so I'm excited. It's tested, I think, for Yvonne and I what security means to be honest with you, for Yvonne and I, what security means to be honest with you. It's tested for us what you know. I had this vision and I shared it with Brian, but just stepping out and not knowing what's going to be underneath your feet, but knowing that he's going to be there. So my faith is being tested. I mean, it's causing me to grow at an exponential rate. And I don't even remember your question, but hopefully I answered it in there somewhere. How old are you, bruce? I'm going to soon to be 56.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

Okay, so I can give a little perspective as a financial advisor. You're in the peak earning years and so you're caught. The cost of your yes is it was very low in college when you were giving your yes, yeah, for the financial cost, yeah I'm talking about.

Speaker 4: 1:08:18

Yeah, no, I know I get it right, yeah, from now.

Speaker 1: 1:08:21

And this is not to instill fear, because this is, it's actually the beauty of the lord answering a yes you had 30 years earlier yeah it's like you actually get to give up. Potentially give up. He may dump buckets of money on you. I don't know, but your sacrifice is more now and there's more beauty in it now.

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

Right, yes.

Speaker 1: 1:08:43

There's more, there's more weight to it. Now, this, yes, because 55 to 67. As a financial advisor, this is when you just mop up. You're experienced. You're entrenched, you're in your peak earning years and you just top off the bucket for retirement and all that stuff, right? And so I love the. I just the story is just weaving together so beautifully the picture I get while you're sharing.

Speaker 3: 1:09:12

That is the woman who breaks the bottle of perfume yeah, everything she had, yeah, and like you're giving everything, yeah and the trust that you put in him is so much higher too yeah yeah uh, yeah, I want to comment on what you said, because I do recognize that, um, I am, I'm making more money than I've ever made in my entire life right now, and uh, here's what I. Here's what I would say, though. Um, this whole notion we're drawn into over the years, and I've I've been drawn into it is this whole idea up into the right. Achievement achievement go bigger. Right, and I'm a type a driven dude. Um, achievement achievement go bigger, and I'm a type A driven dude, if you haven't noticed.

Speaker 1: 1:10:04

I can tell.

Speaker 3: 1:10:10

And so that's not hard for me to figure out up and to the right. But what I believe is I'm moving from a season we're back to seasons again of moving from what I call achievement to fulfillment, and I don't think until probably October of last year. So a couple things happened my son-in-law's father, mark his dad died and then a dear friend of mine who had cancer Orlando. I told him you need to go home, be with your family. He had cancer. He was working, basically, I had a stroke at work and ended up passing away a week later and I got a chance to tell him I loved him and all these things and I'm like, yeah, I cannot think of a reason why I'm working right now. I cannot think why am I working? And I'm doing it for money, to go up and to the right? And I'm like what? The way I explain it is, the scales fell off my eyes and I cannot tell you what that means until you experience it yourself. Otherwise, I promise you, it's way different than you think. If you'd asked me five, six months ago, brian knew me. Trust me, I'm killing it, I'm going to keep going.

Speaker 3: 1:11:36

And none of it made sense to me and so the way that I literally think about this, and Yvonne and I have talked about it I will sell everything. I don't think people get it. None of it's worth it. None of it's worth it. Only one life will soon be passed. Only what's done for Christ will last. So I have a lot of stuff, and I'm not even kidding you. I will sell all of it because I don't care it. Just it's not worth it. It may seem like it's worth it. It ain't worth it.

Speaker 4: 1:12:12

Was there one thing that kind of made that mindset switch? Because I think there's probably a lot of people that would be in a similar boat. They're like, hey, I've got kids, I've got you know, I got to think about retirement, I've got to think about these things, and but I feel this tug that God's calling me into something bigger and greater. What can you walk us through? Maybe what? What happened? What caused your mind to switch, or your faith to switch on, or or or? What was it that really made a difference, where you said you know what these things are going to pass away. They're temporary, yeah, and what I do for the Lord is eternal.

Speaker 2: 1:12:52

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:13:11

I think you heard me say it. Upon reflection, we can see an awful lot of things, and so I think all along the way I think I was I probably knew a lot of this, but I didn't come to terms until those two really big events happened. I'm the only puppy left. Like my grandchildren are really important to me, I'm getting ready to have a third one in three weeks. Little boy, my first grandson. Uh, I was at a leadership Can. I I'm going to deviate for a second.

Speaker 2: 1:13:47

I'll come back to your answer.

Speaker 3: 1:13:49

Cause you know me, I like to tell stories.

Speaker 2: 1:13:50

We're. We're at a hour and 10 minutes.

Speaker 3: 1:13:53

So what does that mean? So we got past what we need. Probably got about 10 minutes. Okay, that's fine. And um, I was at this leadership thing and so I asked the question at the table like who was most influential in your life?

Speaker 3: 1:14:08

and one of the things I learned from over half the people there is a grandparent wow that was n equals eight, but still five out of eight people, including me, who was really influential in my life as one of my grandparents, and so it started to make me think about in I think it was timothy where talks about um, his mother and his grandmother there's a grandparent in there, by the way, fyi um and I'm like. So it's probably a season of life thing where I'm at and recognizing what's really important in life, which is money. Certainly is something I need to subsist, but I can do with an awful lot less than what I have right now we live in abundance.

Speaker 3: 1:14:52

I live in abundance and so there's probably a season of life thing here that helped with that decision to go. What's really important it is serving Jesus, loving my family, who, by the way, are also my neighbors. They're the closest to me, and I just boiled it down to that. It's like what is and what's my why behind all of this. Really, what's my real why? If you ask yourself what's your real why and then write that down, you're going to go what's my why behind all of this? Really, what's my real why? If you ask yourself what's your real why and then write that down, you're going to go what's my real why behind why I'm doing these things.

Speaker 3: 1:15:28

And I think I just uncovered I've been fairly successful, and so there's a part of me that probably said I like people saying that I'm a pretty successful guy and I had to put down that. Um, I had to put down several things, I think, and just go yeah, but is that a strong enough why? Man, I don't know, and for me my answer was no, those aren't strong enough for me to continue the path I'm going on. So I don't know if that answered that.

Speaker 4: 1:16:02

That was awesome. I want to play on that. Why? For just one more question? So you are obviously a man of many talents. I know you really well. Why do you think God is pushing you into this marriage ministry? What's your heart behind it? What's he doing there?

Speaker 3: 1:16:23

Yeah, it takes 10,000 hours to be excellent at something and I spent the first 10 years, 87,000 hours, being really good at being really bad at marriage and we lived really hard. It was hard. I mean I left early on, just beat on the door and said I'm never going back in that house again and we've largely spent the last 23 years 270,000 hours, trying to unwind the first 80,000 hours. And so my why is for broken marriages that can't experience the fullness of what Jesus has in marriage, what God has ordained as part of marriage, and living the fullness of that. I have an incredible marriage. I have an amazing marriage.

Speaker 3: 1:17:23

If you'd asked me early on, I couldn't even dream. I think people think about their marriages like when they get married. I use this analogy of you got like a hundred piece puzzle and you put that hundred piece puzzle together and you're like, oh man, this is good, but you know what happens? It's really a million piece puzzle. And if your marriage, if you're trying to put together the hundred piece puzzle and your marriage is a million piece puzzle and you never discover the other pieces that create this tapestry of a beautiful marriage, then, man, what a hard place to live. I just know too many broken marriages that are still stuck on 101 pieces.

Speaker 2: 1:18:03

Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:18:04

And they have not experienced the full picture of what God wants for us in the unbelievable puzzle. So I want to help people put the puzzles together, the chart the journey. We call ourselves Marriage Journey Guides, because marriage is a journey. We just want to be guides. We want to come on you to help you. Amazing, yeah, really.

Speaker 2: 1:18:29

Bruce, thanks for being on here. Sure, I really appreciate it. Thank you, thanks a lot, thanks a lot, thanks a lot, thank you.