The Uncommon Path
"The Uncommon Path" is a podcast that intimately explores the transformative journeys of individuals, featuring raw and unfiltered testimonies that celebrate the resilience, growth, and shared human experiences, offering listeners a source of inspiration and connection on their own life paths. Join us as we unveil the extraordinary stories that shape who we are.
The Uncommon Path
John Pacilio - Path to Faith and Ushering in the Power of God’s Love
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In this episode, we discuss the life-transforming power of sharing personal testimonies and how they can serve as a bridge to the gospel. John Pacilio shares his own faith journey, emphasizes the importance of establishing a personal connection with God, and encourages listeners to take bold steps in their faith efforts as acts of service to others.
• Exploring the origins of the Uncommon Path podcast
• The significance of unfiltered testimonies in faith journeys
• John Pacilio's transformative experience of coming to faith
• Healing and miracles as expressions of faith
• The challenge and importance of boldness in sharing faith
• Engaging in outreach and service in communities
• Maximizing opportunities for prayer and healing in everyday life
• Encouragement for listeners to step out and share their own stories
Testimonies of Faith and Miracles
Speaker 1Hey everyone , this is Chris . I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast . The scripture , Revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony .
Speaker 2Our hope is that as you listen , you will be encouraged in the Lord . This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him . We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives .
Speaker 3So I was saying how did you guys get started and why did you get started ? I'm interviewing you now .
Speaker 2Well , silly enough , chris and I are in a guys group together and we do fantasy football and so , as a joke , he and I started doing fantasy football podcasts only for our small group and it was there's like 12 guys in the group , so no one else is listening to it . So it was just silliness , basically , and we did that for like the season and basically , in my heart after that was over , I had something in my heart . After that was over , I had something in my heart saying I wonder what it would be like to have a real podcast that talked about people's testimonies and miracles that happened in that and where it was more unfiltered , it was more unfiltered like , not a sometimes you get very polished testimonies from the stage , you know , yeah , yeah , instead of more real and raw like this is where I was at , kind of you know .
Speaker 2So I was thinking about that and I was like I don't know if that's just me wanting to do something or if that's really the lord , and I kind of prayed into . I don't know if I really prayed into it , maybe I just told the Lord if this is of you , then let something happen . And I thought it would be cool to do it with Chris , because we had you know kind of history doing some sort of podcast together and several months went by and Chris , literally out of nowhere , called me and said hey , what are your thoughts on doing a real podcast based around people's testimonies ? So when he said that I was like holy cow , this is what the Lord's been speaking to me . We had a friend in our group that said you should just do 10 episodes and don't even iron out what it's like . Just do 10 and feel it out .
Speaker 2So I guess we're up to 40 something now that's great .
Speaker 1Yeah , is that what it is ?
Speaker 240 something I would think so , because we were around 30 makes sense testimonies are so powerful , powerful , powerful things .
Speaker 3Yeah , uh , it inspires people , it raises faith . That's why , when , uh , I do healing outreaches in el salvador , we might get into it later , I don't know . Yeah , testimonies come first , before the gospel message , because it's an invitation to the gospel . This is what god just did for me . You know it's a big deal for people yeah , it lends credibility .
Speaker 1It's like like the woman at the well . It's like what ? Look what ?
Speaker 3this guy told me everything that I've ever done exactly you know just to let you guys know and I probably shared this with you , chris uh , the goal I'm 82 this month and the goal for the rest of my life is to try to uh merge power in the church among believers , power and the gospel not just the verbal gospel .
Speaker 3I got saved with the verbal gospel , it worked for me . But merging power with the gospel like Jesus did , you know , because he taught and he healed and he preached and he raised the dead and he drove out demons was part of his normal everyday life and ministry . And the same thing for the 12 and the 72 that he sent out . And I don't see that in the church today as much I do see some , as much as I think we should see . So that's my goal is to equip , train , encourage mentor people in that , um , mentor people in that , uh , and also , you know , talk about the risks involved and the hindrances and so forth so cool .
Speaker 1Yeah , I love that . Well , we'll get . We'll for sure get into that Cause . We um .
Speaker 2I am very excited to have you . Uh yeah , I think what you shared is really . That's always been a huge place in my heart seeing more , seeing more movements of God and and because I think , in a day and age where we have everything at our fingertips , I think the Lord's going to move more powerfully in ways that we haven't seen in a while or that you only see in third world countries and stuff , because people of our generation need something real .
Speaker 3Well , I think every person on the planet needs something real . Yeah , something real yeah , you know , if you're going to preach jesus , I think we should be prepared to demonstrate . You know , like paul in first corinthians , he says when I came to you , it wasn't with eloquent speech but a demonstration of the spirit and power so that your faith would be rooted in the power of god .
Speaker 3I mean , how many times do we hear gospel preachers say you know we're going to give you a message , but it's going to be rooted in the power of God ? I don't hear it that much and I don't see the demonstration as much as I'd like to see . So anyway , that's my story .
Speaker 2John Pacilio , thank you for being here today on the Uncommon Path .
Speaker 3We're very excited to have you , John Pacilio thank you for being here today on the Uncommon Path .
Speaker 2We're very excited to have you . Yeah , it's a pleasure , pleasure , to be here . We're going to kind of just go through history with the Lord where your path with him started and then where your path kind of led up to maybe more of a real relationship with him , and then any stories you feel like Holy Spirit wants you to include . Sure . And then um , where the Lord has you now . What's on the horizon ?
Life-Changing Conversion Story
Speaker 3I'm 82 years old . I've been a follower of Jesus since August 1978 . Um August 1978 . I've been doing ministry , seriously ministry , for about the last 35 years Wow .
Speaker 2Yeah . One year longer than I am old .
Speaker 3So how'd you grow up ? Grew up in a italian home in new york . My family was in the restaurant business and my father was an entrepreneur . He was in two businesses restaurant and a plumbing and heating business . He ran them both at the same time . Wow Two older brothers who are no longer with us . They both passed . I'm getting into the age where a lot of my friends are either gone or going , and so .
Speaker 3I say to people you know , I could have 10 years left , I could have 10 minutes left , I don't know . Know at 82 and uh . So , born in brooklyn and moved to long island when I was very young , um , basic italian american family , we ran an italian restaurant since 1953 . I was raised in the restaurant business and went into business for myself , uh , in the restaurant business , uh , when I was uh about 32 wow , yeah , and a college graduate , local college army officer through rotc oh , wow yeah , I did that .
Speaker 3You know it sounds great , you know it sounds very heroic and everything right . I did it to avoid the draft because it was the 60s and everybody was going to vietnam getting getting drafted and going in as buck privates and I didn't want to do that . So did rtc in college . Uh , got commissioned as a second lieutenant , spent two years in Germany where everyone else who was getting commissioned most everybody else was going to Vietnam and I dodged that bullet , very happy that I did too . Wow .
Speaker 2Well , how did you meet the Lord and how did you grow up spiritually Like was it a Catholic background ?
Speaker 3Grew up with a nominal Catholic background , very nominal . Most of my relatives hardly ever went to church , maybe Christmas , easter , something like that . But they were traditional Catholics , you know . I mean Catholic was their religion , got married in the Catholic Church , but never , it never took . For me it just really never meant anything .
Speaker 2Is it meaning it was just kind of like going through the motions , yeah first of all , back then it was in Latin .
Speaker 3I didn't know what was going on . I just did what everybody else did at the time , and no one ever actually shared the gospel with me . It was basically you're in a religion and you just adhere to the religion and that's it . I didn't have time for it .
Speaker 2Did you go through like a rebellious period and then ?
Speaker 3I think I was rebellious from day one in my life .
Speaker 3Yeah , that was kind of who I was I was the third son , third boy in the family , and I was pretty spoiled as the third boy . I was kind of like the golden boy , you know , and I could do anything , couldn't do no wrong , never got disciplined very much , and it headed me really , really , really down a wrong path . My father died when I was about 19 , and my uncle kind of took over the mentorship in my life , but he was pretty whacked out himself and the only real instruction and direction I got was , as far as being a man was concerned , was I'll show you what life is from my uncle's point of view which was totally wrong in every area of life including marriage and morality and values and so forth .
Speaker 3So that's where I was going when I met the Lord .
Speaker 2And that's when you met the Lord . 78 .
Speaker 3Wow . Was there a certain moment that led you to that ? There was a very definite moment . It was 1978 . I was 35 years of age , I was married , I had a son who was eight years old , I had a home of my own with a mortgage , and I used Cadillac in the driveway because New Yorkers like their Cadillacs and a few bucks in the bank , a lot of friends . But I was totally miserable . Nobody knew it because I always put on a nice happy front , you know , because I was the party guy and I used to party a lot . And so I'm married 12 years . Marriage is not working out . I was a rotten husband , terrible husband , and I won't go into all the details how that looked , but use your imagination . I was the worst husband in the world Gambler , druggie , you know , like drugs , partying women and so forth . It wasn't a pretty picture . But in the midst of my trying to find fulfillment , purpose , happiness in everything I was doing , I just became more and more miserable , until an old friend came back into town and I heard and it's in my book , by the way , I'll give it a plug right now it's called Just as it Is In Heaven and you can get it at Amazon . I've read it . It's good .
Speaker 3At the beginning of my book I tell the story of how miserable I was and I was hanging out with two mafia guys . I was kind of envious of their lifestyle because they didn't work and they always had $100 bills wadded up in their pocket and we used to gamble together and party together and all that . And meanwhile , everything I was doing , I mean the guilt in my life was just piling up . The misery was just piling up , the emptiness was getting bigger and bigger and bigger . I really didn't know what to do . Inside of me I was crying out for something . I didn't know what . I wasn't looking for Jesus , but I knew there's something , there had to be more to life .
Speaker 3And an old friend came into town who I hadn't seen in several years and I heard that he was a Jesus guy , jesus freak , jesus follower . I , you know , I heard that . Well , you know , george is back in town and guess what ? He's one of those Jesus people . And this is at the tail end of the Jesus movement on West and East Coast . And I had heard about the Jesus people and all that .
Speaker 3But you know , I didn't want any part of that either . But this mutual friend said something about my friend George . He says , you know , he seems to have it together and his marriage , which was kind of rocky , is really tight now and he seems to be really at peace . And that just went right into my heart Because that's what I was really looking for . I was looking for some kind of peace , some kind of purpose in life . So I gave him a call . He was very surprised to hear from me and he set up a dinner at his house and I took my wife along and we had dinner and after dinner I said Well , george , you know I accepted your dinner invitation because I really wanted to know about the peace that I've heard that you have in your life . He proceeded to open his Bible , big black Bible , and I'm looking at him and say uh-oh .
Speaker 1I mean , you gave him the ultimate layup , though I did yeah . It was a perfect invitation , right yeah ?
Speaker 3But it was really the truth . I'm saying if this guy , you know , because I knew George was a pretty smart guy . We went to two different colleges at the same time and I knew he was a regular guy , just like me and , like I said , we used to party together . So I felt like he was a guy I could trust , you know . So he starts going from Genesis to Exodus in the Bible , and he's going on and on . I don't remember much of what he said , honestly , but after about 20 minutes , half hour or so I don't know how long it was I said , george , just tell me , what do I need to do ? Those were the words that came out of my mouth , that's amazing .
Speaker 3You know what guys the Lord had me so ready .
Speaker 3It was like just a natural , easy thing . And he said well , you get down on your knees and you ask Jesus into your heart . And I found myself getting on my knees and I'm a New York macho guy , I didn't take anything from anybody at the time but I found myself on my knees praying the sinner's prayer and got up and I'm saying to myself is that it ? You know , I don't remember the rest of the night , but I do remember the next morning I got up , I woke up and I was changed . I was different and I knew it . I don't know how I knew it was .
Speaker 3It was the Holy Spirit just witnessing inside of me that something is different . It was going to be different from that moment forward and I call it my day and night black and white experience , because that's what it was . I knew nothing was really going to be the same from that day forward and my friend George proceeded to do a personal Bible study with me and my wife . He would invite us over several times a week and go through the Bible and I just couldn't get enough of what he was talking about , Just couldn't get enough transformation , that I started telling everybody I knew and everybody I met about Jesus because my life was different . This big burden , this need , everything was falling into place for me .
Speaker 1I mean , I was radically converted and John , what did Fran think of this new ? John , and what did she ? Think of the whole experience of like we're following Jesus now .
Speaker 3She didn't trust it for a minute Because I hadn't been a good husband to begin with for 12 years . We were married 12 years and she was doing a wait and see kind of thing . And I don't blame her a bit , because you never knew what was coming out of my mouth at any given time . I mean I would run off before this . I would just hop on a plane , go to Las Vegas for gambling with friends of mine and so forth , come home five , six o'clock in the morning after I close up the restaurant without telling her what I was doing . I gave no account for my actions at all . I was a really bad person , so why should she believe that I was any different ? But after a few weeks she saw a radical change in me . I guess I was nicer , I guess I was calmer and more at peace . And she came to the Lord about three or four weeks later . Wow , but the first three or four weeks later Wow but the first three or four weeks she was very , very cautious .
Speaker 2Wow , and was it so ? Did basically this relationship with George and his wife ? I guess they started mentoring you guys or kind of like just pouring into you .
Speaker 3Yeah , we joined the church that they were in first . We went back to the catholic church because I said , well , you know , my roots are in catholicism , so I need to go back there . And it wasn't long before I found out that that wasn't really what I was looking for . So we hooked up with the church that they were a part of , a church called Gospel Outreach , which originated in Northern California , eureka , eureka , california , and we hooked up with that church and started going to services and Bible studies and so forth .
Speaker 1But they had a branch or like a location in Brooklyn . They had a branch in .
Speaker 3Brooklyn and a branch in Long Island . What they did from Eureka , california , was send out teams . In other words , they church planted without even calling it that . They would send out a half a dozen people who wanted to go to Brooklyn , new York , and send them out to go there , preach the gospel and make a church .
Speaker 1Cool , that's what they did ? Was that like a Jesus movement ? It was from the Jesus movement . From the Jesus movement . Yes , it was .
Speaker 3Very , very heavily from the Jesus movement Before I got saved . For a good 10 years before that it was a total Jesus movement type of group . I mean they even had communal living at the time , things like that . But for me some people call it an evangelistic gift I don't know . All I knew is I had to tell people about Jesus and you either loved me or you hated me . And that's how it was with my family . My family thought I was crazy .
Speaker 2Oh , really so , like your brothers and your parents .
Speaker 3Oh yeah . Well , you know why I was so , so hyped about Jesus . I couldn't stop talking about him and if you don't want to hear about that , that gets old pretty quick and I , you know I wasn't very diplomatic about it . Honestly , I probably could have been a lot more diplomatic about it , but I wasn't .
Speaker 1And um , so you kept the macho brash new yorkness in your youism . You know it doesn't fade that easily . I love it .
Speaker 3These days I'm very mild , but in those days I was not . So fair . But I mean , I would pick up hitchhikers and by the time I dropped them off they were coming to the Lord Things like that I told everybody I knew about . Jesus and a lot of people loved me and a lot of people hated me for it .
Speaker 2Do you have any specific memories back then that stick out to you , that , like just happenstance , god ordained moments where , like you led people to the Lord ?
Speaker 3Well , I led my mom to the Lord .
Speaker 2Oh , wow .
Speaker 3One day I was over her house for breakfast and I said Mom , you got to come to Jesus because I want to see you in heaven . And she prayed a prayer with me , me the next day , and she says I feel wonderful . Wow , I led an aunt of mine to the lord , so not every member of the family was anti-jesus what about your son ?
Speaker 1because you had a .
Speaker 3What an eight-year-old he was eight years old when we , when my wife and I , came to the lord , yeah and uh , he picked up on it right away . He picked up , he . I don't know if there was a specific time that we led him to the lord or not . I'm sure there was a time that we prayed together , uh , but he , he was a believer right away in everything we were doing . That's great .
Journey to San Diego and Ministry
Speaker 2So how long did y'all stay in New York ?
Speaker 3I'm thinking we stayed there for about from 78 to about 84 . About 84 , and my wife had a brother and a sister living on the west coast and we both felt like we're supposed to go there and I think the Lord wanted us to go there , because we had a lot of family persecution going on and we felt it was the best our time was was done in new york , so we moved to san diego .
Speaker 2Uh , four or five years later , and then did you just leave the restaurant , or did someone else take it over , or was it ?
Speaker 3I sold the restaurant that I owned , uh , but I had sold that beforehand . I sold it before I became a Christian , so I didn't have any ties except for family .
Speaker 2Okay , looking back on it , why do you feel like the Lord called you all to San Diego ? What happened in San Diego for you and your wife and son ?
Speaker 3Well , what happened in New York was , you know , sometimes the Lord moves you places out of discontent . We weren't content with the life there . We were looking for newer horizons , and I don't know how it came about exactly , but we came out from New York to LA , where my wife's brother and sister were living at the time . I think we took a trip there in February and got off the plane and it was 72 degrees and sunny and that was one of the motivations . To be honest with you , we were kind of looking for a different lifestyle , you know , and since I was kind of entrepreneurial anyway , I found myself wanting to do something different than restaurants , which was holidays , weekends , nights away from the family . So I wanted to spend more time with the family . So that was some of the motivating factors . It wasn't all totally spiritual . I'm sure the Lord was leading us in that direction .
Speaker 1What did you get involved with when you got there ?
Speaker 3I got involved with the same church that I hooked up with in New York Gospel Outreach and in the church they had a business . It was a church-based business called New Life Service Company , and each member of the New Life Service Company had their own little company and they were their own businessman and what they did was they went around . Mainly at the time when I joined they went around to car lots , used car lots and furniture dealers repairing vinyl and leather furniture and upholstery , and so I went out with a guy from the church who was very generous , took me out around with him and learned a business pretty quick , went out on my own and I made a living . It wasn't great , but I made a living .
Speaker 1Was it so you learned this trade and then started your own business outside the New Life Service Company ?
Speaker 3It was part of New Life Service Company company , but it was an individual business . It was mine , it didn't belong to them , but they I was able because it was a church-based business . They allowed us to use the name interesting I haven't heard of that before , yeah same .
Speaker 1So this is like a non-profit , or was it just no it was for profit everybody .
Speaker 3Everybody ran their own little business , basically and and we would get together as new life san diego uh , and have regular meetings and stuff and we would share um business , uh , skills and things like that it was . It was very , really pretty good that's interesting , yeah I've never heard of that either .
Speaker 1Closest thing I've heard of that is like the full gospel businessmen's fellowship which my dad was a part of in the 70s . I guess it would be , but that was more like businessmen from all different churches , all different businesses , all different trades meeting for prayer and take on projects around this community and stuff like that .
Speaker 3These were all guys that were running their business who went to the same church and came under the label New Life Service Company .
Speaker 3I think we might have even paid dues into it , or something I I don't really remember , it was quite some time ago , you know . So you learned the vinyl repair , vinyl and leather repair and it was pretty good I did . Well , you had to do some selling . You'd go to the used car lots and say , hey , you know , I'm here . Uh , instead of , instead of reupholstering , uh , your driver's seat in this car , I can fix it and save you half the amount of money which we could do at the time .
Speaker 3We learned how to do it neat things like that and that evolved into leather , which I like more because you can make more money with repairing leather but you have to be very , very skilled to do it . And then I used to go to furniture stores who carried leather and you know they would have a $1,000 sofa . In those days it was $1,000 and that was 40 years ago and they'd have a little nick on it and they couldn 40 years ago and they'd have a little nick on it and they couldn't sell it .
Speaker 3But I would come in , repair it , make it disappear , and then they could sell it . So I was valuable to them Back when furniture was well built and cost a lot more .
Speaker 1Yeah , you should do the imported leathers , you know , the Italian leathers Back when furniture was well built and costs , cost a lot more yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , you should do the imported leathers , you know the Italian leathers , um real soft , plushy stuff , you know my friend owns a high end furniture store in Waco and he actually was on his way to he paid . He actually was on his way to , he paid . I think it was $1,500 . To come to around Asheville area to do a leather repairing class and he said it's the only class in the nation that he could research and that was the only way he could learn how to do it . And it was when the hurricane happened so it got canceled . But he , he was like I literally couldn't find any other way to learn about this high-end repair leather furniture , yeah , except out here in north carolina , which you know it's so interesting .
Speaker 3it's been refined over over the years and it's really really good stuff . You can make repairs , most repairs . I mean if you have a big cut in it , you're not going to want it repaired anyway you don't want it replaced . You know that panel . But we could dye leather , we could change the color of it and make and make most small repairs disappear wow , pretty cool , so I was just gonna say so , you were working , you got a trade .
Speaker 1Did you get involved in the ministry at that point , or ?
Speaker 3um , in the early days I was not involved with any kind of uh , public ministry . Is that what you're talking about ?
Speaker 3or church ministry , not really yeah it was just personal , personal ministry on my own . I mean I used to go door to door with friends of mine , uh , talking about jesus . I mean it was something in me that I just couldn't shut down . You know I didn't want to shut it down but I continued doing one-on-one . Evangel was volunteering for Youth for Christ in San Diego and I was going into the juvenile hall this is in the early 90s and going in there and sharing with the kids . 90s and going in there and sharing with the kids .
Speaker 3And I went to Juvenile Hall in San Diego . There was probably 400 kids between the ages of 11 and 18 . Once you were 18 , you were an adult and you went to the real jail , the adult jail . But those kids were on my heart from the day . Somebody first took me in there because I said you know what's going to happen with these guys . You know these girls and guys .
Speaker 3And so I started volunteering with Youth for Christ in the juvenile hall ministry and I did that for a couple of years in the late 80s , early 90s , I can't remember exactly . And then the first actual ministry ministry quote job that I had was when Youth for Christ asked me to direct the program in there Because the director of the Juvenile Hall ministry was leaving and they liked what I was doing in there and so they asked me to direct the program . But it was a good news , bad news , kind of thing . John , we like what you do in Juvenile Hall , we'd like for you to join us , we'd like you to be the director of the program , but we don't have any money for you . We can't pay you anything .
Speaker 3Classic ministry pitch , but this was really a God thing , because just before that I felt the Lord urging me to give up my business and become a minister of some kind . I didn't know what kind , he didn't get specific , but one day I felt this on the inside of me . I felt him saying I was saying why am I not satisfied with the business I have ? And I felt the Lord saying because my grace is not in this for you . Wow . And that affected me ? Was it Because I'm saying to myself .
Speaker 2Me , was it because I'm saying to myself aha , now I see why you know , I can't just be content with building businesses any longer . Well , just for clarification , there was a time where that was content .
Speaker 3Yeah , it was it was kind of like my thing yeah , you know , because I had , I had an entrepreneurial gift , uh , uh and uh , it was easy , because my father was an entrepreneur and you know I was raised in that kind of an environment , you know and then this was the moment where the lord was like there's , there's not a grace for this anymore , right , wow ?
Speaker 3and then there was a morning when I was in prayer and I felt the Lord say I want you to quit your job and become the way he put it was become my minister . And I said , whoa , that's interesting . But I knew it was the Lord , Right , I don't know how I knew , but I knew it was the Lord . I mean , it wasn't a voice , an audible voice , but inside of me I knew it was the Lord . And I told my wife about it and she freaked out . She said , yeah , wow , what are we going to do for a living ? You know , that's fine , you heard from God Wonderful .
Speaker 3And I'll blame her one bit because , don't forget , she had a past with me , right ? And maybe she was saying to myself oh , the old John is raising his ugly head again , because I used to have a lot of ideas like that for different things and businesses and so forth . And so I said all I know is that's what I heard . A week or two after I heard that , told my wife about it , the director of Youth for Christ , San Diego , calls me into his office . He says we want to give you this job , but there's no salary . Well .
Speaker 3So for me , I knew it was the open door the Lord had provided and I knew it was a yes . It was a big yes for me . My wife Fran , she was still very , very hesitant , so I made a deal with her . I said , look , if in three months we had a little bit of savings . I said , if in three months we're not paying all our bills and got money coming in , then I'll admit that I didn't hear right and I'll go back , get a job or crank up the old business or something .
Speaker 3But what I felt from the Lord was give away your business , don't sell it . I probably could have sold it and made a few bucks , but give away your business and become full-time for me . What happened was , I heard , and then the door opened and I and I went through the door and I did some fundraising and I also uh , from the previous uh director of the juvenile hall program . I got a list of supporters you know mailing list of supporters and she gave it to me . She says this is yours . And so I started , you know , sending letters out and I did a few fundraisers and before you know it I had more income coming in than I was making in my business .
Speaker 4Wow . Okay , I got to ask you this , john , because I work with some people in ministry .
Speaker 1Yeah , I got to ask you this , john , because I work with some people in ministry . Yeah , got friends in ministry . A lot of people hate fundraising .
Speaker 2I'm so glad you asked this question .
Speaker 1They hate asking for money and I work in money . I work in the financial field and money is just a tool . I'm not saying , I'm 100% pure hearted about money . But what I am saying is I don't see it as this weird thing that you can't talk about or there's a stigma around money . I tell my ministry friends hey , you're doing good work , people want to invest in that , people want to partner with you .
Speaker 3Just tell them about it .
Speaker 1But what would you say to those people who are in ministry , who hate fundraising , but they need to do it ?
Speaker 3Well , I would say hate it less .
Speaker 3I really would that's so great , hate it less because what you're doing is giving people a way to participate in the kingdom , come on , because you're bringing the kingdom to people . They can't do it because they've got a family and they're working full-time pretty hard and yet they would like to be a part of something like that . So hate fundraising less and , yeah , don't be ashamed of it and don't dislike it . It's the way things are , unless you are called to be a tent-making minister and work , and a lot of guys do that a lot of women do that , you know they'll work and they'll also do the ministry too .
Speaker 3but nothing wrong with fundraising Because people have a choice .
Divine Healing and Ministry Beginnings
Speaker 3I don't believe in trying to beat people up and make them feel guilty about not giving you know , that's out of the question , but present the need , and the need that I presented is this I go into juvenile hall . I get young people saved and turned around and we get them into a mentor program when they get out and we see young lives changed in very desperate situations . If you want to be a part of that , send me some money .
Speaker 2That was it . I love that .
Speaker 1I love it too . I feel like , if you're , if you're still doing that I'm getting my checkbook out , like that's I'm doing it in el salvador , so do it , I am that's so awesome I'll thank you .
Speaker 1thank you for that , because I that that's something that I think is uh , every menace , every person in ministry at some point has that friction . They feel a little weird or whatever . But I'm also amazed that you're you know that takes faith . You had some kind of young child at this point , or 8 , 10 , 12 , somewhere in that range At this point my son .
Speaker 3Chris is a young teenager .
Speaker 1Young teenager ?
Speaker 3I'm not sure exactly how old , but maybe 12 , 13 , 14 .
Speaker 1So you have a young teenage boy ?
Speaker 3No , no , this is 10 years later , so he is 18 , 19 at this point .
Speaker 1Yeah , okay , he is 18 , 19 at this point , yeah , okay Is he still under the roof living with you guys . Oh yeah , okay , so he's there , he's at home . He's at home , you got a wife at home and you say yes to the Lord and that means stepping away from your paycheck and not even selling your business , giving it away so you don't have that infusion of cash .
Speaker 3There was nothing to fall back on . You know what I felt . It was God's way , so that I wouldn't have a tendency to go back . So give away your business so that you don't have that as a fallback yeah because it's like , john , we're going to do this together and I'm going to show you that I could take care of you , and I got to tell you guys and anybody listening um , my wife and I have never been late for a bill since wow and this is we're talking about 1990 and for the next 10 years or actually was 89 , 89 on through , wow it was wild
Speaker 1he was faithful to provide all your financial needs .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah well , where , where ? So where did the lord take you after that time ? How long were you with I spent ?
Speaker 310 years with youth for christ . It was two years as a volunteer and and eight years as a director . And uh , let me tell you something all during this time , from day one that I got saved I was dealing with sickness I get saved 1978 and I have stomach problems and depression really yes as soon as you got saved as soon as I got saved and , uh , I and I was in a church that really wasn't grounded in healing .
Speaker 3It wasn't a big , big value , you know . I mean they would lay hands on me and pray their best prayer and everything , but there was no real value for healing , no anticipation of something actually happening . So I think this thing about healing that started with me and the reason I wrote my book is through my early experiences as a Christian and being a sick Christian . So for the next 10 years , from 78 to 88 , I was sick and I went from pillar to post , went to this preacher and that preacher lay hands , lay hands , prayer , prayer , prayer and nothing happened . Nothing that changed until I read a book one time in like the 10th year of the sickness . It was about a minister who was on his deathbed with an incurable heart disease . He was given like you've got weeks maybe to live and in his book he said he was reading the Bible in bed and he came across a few passages that changed his life and got him healed .
Speaker 3And I want to remember correctly one of the passages . I don't know the address of it , but one of the passages was Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil . And that sunk into this guy and he had like an awakening , a revelation from that scripture and says wait a minute , the people that Jesus healed were oppressed of the devil . I mean , that's what it says . So he took that as a personal revelation for his own sickness . And he also read in Mark 11.24 , where Jesus had just cursed the fig tree and it withers and the disciples later say what happened here and it withers and the disciples later say what happened here .
Speaker 3And he says well , you know , have faith in God , because I tell you , anyone who speaks to the mountain and says you must be removed from this place to the next and doesn't doubt in his heart but believes what he says , he shall have the thing he says . And Jesus said therefore , when you pray , believe you have received it . So he put those two scriptures together that sickness is basically from the devil and that he could speak to his own mountain and it must be removed . If he didn't doubt , he applied those scriptures to his own sickness . He spoke to his own body , he got out of bed and went to work feeling exactly the same as he did before he prayed , prayed , and as hurtful and weak and sick as he was before he prayed . But he said to himself I am going to be fine , because the Word of God says and over the course of I don't know what it was days or weeks , he just progressed to be completely healed , became a very famous minister , although controversial , and his name was Kenneth Hagin .
Speaker 1Oh , wow .
Speaker 3That's right . That's how he started . I did not know his origin . That's how he started his ministry . Now , I'm not on the total side of word of faith , ministries , which is called , you know the , believe it and receive it , the name it and claim it , all that . But I saw this in his book and it worked for him and I was miserable and the doctors couldn't help me and the prayers that I was getting my prayers and others weren't helping me . I did exactly what he did and over the course of three months , I was relieved of all my symptoms . Wow , Wow .
Speaker 3But it was a fight and I don't really kind of recommend it to everybody , like do that and you'll be fine . It's something that has to get down on the inside of you . I mean , you have to really buy into that , and I did and I was healed and that was kind of what started me pursuing the I don't even like to call it the ministry of healing . Healing , basically healing , got me on that course of looking into it . What is this healing stuff all about and that developed in me ? So I got healed of the stomach stuff in 88 , went on to battle with headaches in the 90s , which I also got healed of , and in the late 90s I went to a Randy Clark conference in San Diego . And I don't know , are you guys familiar with Randy Clark ?
Speaker 1Have you looked at his stuff .
Speaker 3Yes , Well , if you know Randy Clark , you know that he will give words of knowledge about people being healed . He'll pray from the platform for people and he'll just say , okay , raise your hand if you've been healed . And dozens of people in his meetings get healed all the time . And I was there and I saw that and I said , wow , this is what I've been looking for , where it actually happens . And it doesn't happen by hours and hours and days and days of prayer and fasting and crying out to God . It happens , it seems , because God wants it to happen . And it really affected me . It really really went right in here and at the end of the conference he lays hands on leaders and pastors and I went forward for prayer . He says I'm going to lay hands on all you guys and then you can go and do what I do . I said to myself what Randy said you can do what I'm doing and I simply believed him and I started putting it into practice .
Speaker 3At the time , I was doing a series of weekend evangelistic gatherings in Tijuana , mexico , which was 20 minutes away from our house . 20 minutes was the Mexican border and I call it the third world country . That's 20 minutes away . It was a perfect ministry opportunity Because you could go there and you can get out , because I don't like long-term missions . To be honest with you , it's not my thing , it's not my gift , not my calling but you could be in and out of Mexico , you could minister as long as you want and then you go home , sleep in your own bed .
Speaker 3Uh . So I was doing these evangelistic outreaches on a small plot of land uh , I'd say maybe an acre of land down there that this woman , um , was squatting on . She was there that this woman was squatting on . She was a Christian woman . She was squatting on . It had a little hovel of a house there , but she used to reach out to the crossers these were the guys trying to get across the border that we're seeing happening today and she used to minister to them , give them food , clothes and preach the gospel to them and get them saved .
Speaker 3So I was ministering with her doing that . And then on this one particular weekend we gathered a crowd of , I'm thinking , who knows , 30 , 40 , 50 people gathered to get food and to get clothes and we had a little platform there , we did a little bit of music and I felt the Lord impress on me to do what Randy Clark did on that weekend . So I started preaching a little bit , telling about about Jesus , and I felt the Lord impress on me to to ask how many of you came here with pain today , and I'm thinking about eight or 10 . Hands went up and I said this to them and this was inspiration of the holy spirit , because , I'm sorry , I got a little cough . I said , listen , I'm gonna pray for you and if nobody gets healed you don't have to listen to a word I'm saying about jesus that's such a bold prayer that just come out of your mouth .
Speaker 3It almost like came out of my mouth . I did think about it before , but it was almost like I just got to say that . And after I said it I took a deep gulp and I'm shooting up prayers . Oh Lord , you better back me up on this , you know .
Power of Healing and Conversion
Speaker 3So I preached a little bit more and then I asked the question okay , how many of you who came here in pain ? The Lord would not let me say feel a little bit better ? He didn't let me say you came with pain , but you're feeling a little bit better . No , he wanted me to say how many of you came with pain and all your pain is gone . So I said that after I made a declaration , I prayed healing prayer over everybody . You know this was . After that I said how many of you came with pain and all your pain is gone and nobody raised their hand oh man .
Speaker 3So I thought I I honestly thought I blew it . I thought I didn't hear from god , I thought I was totally on the wrong track , took a deep gulp . My knees are kind of shaking . I'm saying what , what in the world am I going to do now ? And then I felt the Lord say go for it again . And I went for it again . I says okay , I'll ask one more time how many of you came with pain and all your pain is gone ? Then I saw some hands go up . One , two , I think three or four or five hands went up . I said do you understand what I'm saying ? You came with pain , but you don't have pain anymore .
Speaker 3I was kind of like in shock myself that it was happening . And sure enough it was the truth . And I called as many as I could get up onto the platform as possible and I said tell the people what Jesus just did for you . And each one had different things . It was mostly injuries or stomach stuff , because there was a lot of stomach stuff down there in Mexico . And they all said I came with this and all my pain is gone . I came with that and all my pain is gone . And that was the first time in my life and first time as a Christian , first time in the ministry , that I could say this is the Jesus that I'm talking to you about .
Speaker 3And he just demonstrated that he's a here and now jesus , not somebody your mother may have told you about or you may have heard about , not even somebody that we have just told you about . He's here , he's now , and this is some of the things that he could do . Wow , what I found from that point forward was you don't need to do a lot of persuasion , evangelism , to convince people that they need to know Jesus . All you have to do is preach a simple gospel and say look at the results of the prayer for these people and what Jesus did for them . And then the hands went up for healing and hands went up for salvation pretty easily . And that's what has continued since that weekend in . It was either 1999 or 2000 . Wow , wow , wow .
Speaker 1So that was a difference , right . The power , yeah , the power came to your evangelism at that point .
Speaker 3Yeah , and it's stuck with me ever since . It's what I do these days , wherever I go . It's what I do these days in wherever I go , in any meeting that I'm in with more than 10 , 12 people . I like large crowds , that's what you know . Our pastor Ben . He says what do you like to do ? I says get me a crowd . And God because what I've done since is I've proven that over and over and over again that God will move , he will heal , he wants to heal , he'll demonstrate his power , just like he did with Paul in Corinth the first time he went to Corinth . It doesn't describe what happened , but it was a demonstration of the Spirit's power that affected these people and helped to get them converted . So I made that my ministry from that day forward .
Speaker 1I love it . I asked you a question once . I got to
Healing and Frustration in Ministry
Speaker 1put this on the recording . I asked you a question once I got to put this on the recording . I asked you a question once . You may not even remember this , john , but I said do you have the gift of healing ? And you said John's shaking his head right now and he said no , I don't have the gift of healing . If I had the gift of healing , probably 80% or 90% of the people I prayed for would get healed . Only 50% of the people I prayed for get healed .
Speaker 3I pray for get healed Only 50% of the people I pray for get healed or less . Sometimes it's even less than that . Believe me , I gotta tell you something about it . That's a pretty good number , though In my head I'm like oh only half the time do you ?
Speaker 1experience miracle healing , Like that's pretty good .
Speaker 3Well , first of all let me clarify something Probably much less than 50% of the people I pray for get healed and Probably much less than 50% of the people I pray for get healed . And I got to tell you something Healing over the last what is it ? From 90 till now is 35 years , 1990 . Healing has been the most electrifying , satisfying , exciting and disappointing , frustrating thing that I've ever done , you know , ever been involved in . Because it's like I was saying before that show on TV the thrill of victory , the agony of defeat . Because I've seen dear friends of mine that I've prayed for , believed for , pressed in for get worse and die . But I've also seen people with a blind eye , a man with a blind eye get his sight back . A young boy who was deaf from birth in Veracruz , mexico , begin to hear Scoliosis straighten up right in front of my eyes . A guy , people throwing away their crutches because they could walk again , cancer healed . I've seen a lot of amazing a woman with systemic lupus for 10 years in pain every day for 10 years get completely healed . So I've seen all that .
Speaker 3But my constant dialogue with the Lord is why can't we get everybody healed , why doesn't it happen ? And I've had a constant battle with myself and a gentle battle with the Lord . Not a battle , but a conversation on . I just want to see more , I don't want to see less , and it's been a frustration but it's been a delight . Also , in Veracruz , mexico , we saw dozens of people healed . In El Salvador , we've done about eight large group meetings , varying from 400 to 1,500 people , where hundreds of people have been healed , hundreds of people , and after I would give my message and release healing from the platform and declare healing , they would line up to give testimonies . Dozens of people lining up to give testimonies . I mean , how do you ever walk away from something ?
Speaker 3I have to keep doing that you know , Because after each one of those meetings , I simply point to the miracles and the healings and the testimonies and say this is Jesus we're talking about here . I can't heal a flea with a headache on my own , but Jesus can do miracles today because he's the same yesterday , today and forever , and you need him in your life . It makes it makes the preaching of the gospel for me a lot , a lot easier how do you deal with the the disappointment side of it ?
Speaker 1like you , said .
Speaker 3I gotta tell you , man , it is so hard . It is so hard . I mean , I pray for people on a regular basis in the marketplace , in church and so forth . I don't see a lot happening right in front of my eyes as I would like to , as much as I'd like to . I have to walk away from each prayer for people with a okay , I'm going to believe it's done . I'm going to walk away believing . You know , if I meet somebody in Walmart you know Walmart's one of my favorite places because there's people running around in those carts , right In the motorized carts , so you know they're in need , right . So it's an opportunity .
Speaker 3I don't do it all the time . I don't do it every time I'm in Walmart , but every once in a while when I tune in and when I get intentional and that's something about praying for people out there that it's not something I'll do every time I see a person with a walker or a cane or something , but when I tune into the Holy Spirit , I'll usually get an indication that I should do that , and nine out of ten people that I approach for healing in the marketplace strangers . What I'll do is I'll basically walk up to them and say , hey , what happened to you , do you mind telling me ? And nine out of ten people will tell you their story . You know people . They like to tell you their story . They want a little bit of sympathy , they want somebody to care a bit about what's going on with them . And they'll tell me well , you know , I was in a car accident , hurt my back and this and that . How long have you been in pain ? Oh , for six months I've been in pain . That's why I'm in this cart running around Walmart , this motorized cart , and I'll simply say , hey , you know what ? I'm a Christian .
Speaker 3I pray for people and some of them get healed . Would it be all right for me to pray for you ? And nine out of 10 say yes . And some of them are very appreciative , very appreciative , and , like I said before , not everything happens in the moment . I'll have a few people feeling better right then and there . Sometimes I'll ask how they're doing . Sometimes I'll just pray and say you know , I'm going to believe God for you to feel better . And who knows , I mean I never see him again . But I think that's part of our job , it's part of our call it . Our responsibility as Christians is to give away what we've got and give people . I call it . Let's give people everything that Jesus so dearly paid for on the cross , and I believe healing is part of that .
Speaker 1Well , you said I can't remember if it's on the podcast or we , before we start recording . You said you're 83 to 82 this month 82 january 28th , coming up soon , so soon to be 83 . In your words , you said I don't know if I have 10 years or 10 minutes . It's true . What does this season of your life look like ? What are you passionate about ? What are you hoping to accomplish ?
Speaker 3This season right now is frustrating for me for several reasons . I just got out of the hospital with pneumonia . I didn't get healed Frustrating for me . I'm still in recovery from the hospital , so Jesus didn't touch me and heal me like I wanted him to , like I asked him to Frustrating . Also frustrating is I don't have the contacts that I had in San Diego so that when I wanted to do an outreach there it was easy because I knew people and could get it organized .
Speaker 3So I'm developing relationships with Ben and other people from our church , our church , um , and I , um , I proposed to Ben that I'd like to do a church outreach around the church area with an event in the church , in the auditorium that we're in at the church . Uh , you know , blanket the area with with flyers , invite people maybe , do some giveaways and then do what I do . And you know I promised him that there will be healings . Because there's just no doubt in my mind anymore , there's no question about it , because I have that history now with the Lord , after doing it so many times now with the Lord , after doing it so many times , that I know he's going to heal and I know he's going to save , and so I'm looking forward to that happening .
Speaker 3Um , I'm also looking forward to maybe developing a , a class , a healing class at uh Antioch where I can equip people and maybe form a Todd White type of group where people go out together on the street , strike up conversations , pray for people , get people healed , get people saved and maybe form that group . So that's what I'm looking forward to . But it's a little frustrating right now because I'm used to flowing a little bit easier because of the contacts I had and I'm making those contacts now . So I'm going to be looking for you two guys to go out with me . I'm ready . I want to go to that class .
Speaker 1I'm ready or looking for you two guys to go out with me .
Speaker 3I'm ready .
Speaker 1I want to go to that class or go out do all of it let me ask a lay up question .
Speaker 2Come on , for people outside of our community you know , who don't know you . What makes you so special to do this ?
Speaker 3Well , I got to tell you I am the least special guy you could know . I've got a horrible prayer life , if you want to call it a prayer life at all . I mean , when I first got saved I would spend an hour a day at least with the Lord in prayer and Bible study . When I first got saved , that lasted for just a few years . I haven't done that in many , many years , but I've felt that the Lord has shown me I don't need to do that because my ongoing , daily , moment-to-moment relationship is what counts . And uh , and that might be a cop-out , but uh , uh , I I don't think I'm special at all , I'm not special , I'm hungry . So for anybody out there , if you got a little bit of hunger , feed the hunger , go for that little thing inside of you that's saying do this , do this with the Lord , do this for the . Lord .
Speaker 3It may not be what I do , but I believe everybody has gifts and callings . I do believe I have a gift in evangelism , but I don't have the gift of healing , and I honestly don't think many people do . There are a few people around that do have a resident gift of healing . In other words , it's with them from start to finish , every day , and they see a lot of people healed , but I don't know anybody sees everybody healed . I don't know .
Speaker 3If you could tell me of one person who , whoever you want they pray for , gets healed . I'd like to meet that person . Uh , but I don't have a gift of healing . I ask for you know , like it says , earnestly desire the greater gifts . I asked for the gift of healing , the gift of faith , the gift of miracles , the gift of prophecy . All the time I ask for it , all the time . Occasionally , I think God drops those things on people and he drops them on me occasionally , where I know sometimes I'm praying with somebody . I'm praying with somebody and I know they're going to get healed . That's the gift of faith .
Speaker 3But I don't have a resident gift of faith . I don't have a resident gift of healing , that's for sure . I mean , my track record attests to that . It's not great , but I know it's important to do and I know it's part of our Christian responsibility to do .
Speaker 1Let me ask you this because , as I hear your story and I'm also listening I'm going to give some context to the question . I'm listening to the biography of Phil Knight , the guy who started Nike Shoes Entrepreneur . I just read the part where he's in Japan , he's he's repping some other , he has exclusive sales rights , or is trying to get exclusive sales rights to sell some Japanese shoes in the United States . Um , and they're like well , you're not , you're not our guy , you don't have a East coast headquarters , you're only on the West coast . And he's like oh no , I have an east coast headquarters . And uh , then they're like oh , you do , okay , well , then we'll give you exclusive rights to sell these shoes in the united states and he wins this , this exclusive distributorship which he was trying to get .
Speaker 1And then but as a reader you know like he definitely does not have an east coast office 100 doesn't .
Speaker 1So he goes back to the united states from japan and he's like all right , I gotta open up an east coast office because they're shipping the shoes there and I don't even own the building yet and I don't have an employee there yet , I don't have a network there yet , and he just kind of I don't know kind of wrote this check that he couldn't cash in the moment .
Power of Speaking Out in Faith
Speaker 1But I've heard you say a few things in your story that kind of were similar like the Mexican hovel , where you're like hey , if you're not healed , don't pay any attention to this stuff . I'm preaching to you now . Or like hey , ben , I'm going to guarantee healings . Or like hey , hey , ben , uh , I'm gonna guarantee healings , like I to me . Like that you have the entrepreneurial gift , right I mean ? And actually you said that about yourself . And so here's the question . That was a lot of context for a simple question . But what ? How does that entrepreneurial gift manifest in your spiritual life ?
Speaker 3You know , I never thought about it like that honestly , I never considered it an entrepreneurial gift , but you might be right . I'm going to have to think about that question before I even I'll have to get back to you on that that's fair , but it feels like there's a boldness . I do have a boldness .
Speaker 1That is like I'm just going to say this and let God , but I got to tell you something .
Speaker 3I have to make this clear to whoever's listening . I do have a boldness , but I have to be intentional about it . But I have to be intentional about it . In other words , every time I'm out and I'm thinking about approaching somebody to prayer , I go through what everybody else goes through oh , they're not going to want to hear about it , they're probably going to reject it . What if I pray for them and nothing happens ? That goes through my mind almost every time and I have to , every single time , get rid of those thoughts and say you know what , I'm just going to do it anyway . What in the world do I have to lose ? You know what ? I have ? Never I've prayed for hundreds and hundreds of people in the marketplace .
Speaker 3You know I'm talking about Costco , walmart on the street and so forth at the beach . Well , you don't have a beach here , but in San Diego we used to go to the beach regularly , uh , and I always have to get over the fears and the . You know the limitations . So , like you said , why are you so special ? I ain't . I ain't special Because I go through the same thing that you would go through if you felt like you should go pray for somebody . So I don't know about gifts Evangelistic . Yes , it's easy for me to share the gospel , but it's not always easy for me to approach people because I have to go through the thinking about it every time . You understand what I'm saying .
Speaker 1Yeah , I think it's perfectly clear .
Speaker 3And like I said before , I'm not this wonderful , uh , healing evangelist who everybody I pray for gets saved , everybody pray for gets healed , and I do it every day , 10 times a day . I don't do that . I don't do that . I would like to be like that and I aspire to be like that . Maybe in my older age I might be like that . I don't know , maybe that gifting is coming . You know what I really am hanging on to giftings , though . We've got to have some giftings , but we can't let the gifting deter us from the doing , because Jesus didn't say these signs shall follow them , that believe if they have the gifts Right . He says these signs shall follow them , that they believe they will lay hands on the sick and they shall recover . So gifts are a plus Gifts are a plus .
Speaker 3Did I answer your question . I mean yeah , I'm not sure I did .
Speaker 1It's okay , I think you did , I think you did , I think you did . It's really encouraging actually to hear that you wrestle with the same hesitations that I would .
Speaker 3I'm praying , saying Lord , I know you're going to be with me , but come on , we need to get this done . But I'm convinced it's a partnership . Now , you know the Bible calls it co-laboring . I'm convinced it's a partnership and I'm also convinced of something else . And I'm also convinced of something else If we don't respond , if we don't step out there , offer to pray and pray for sure nothing's going to happen , at least in the moment . It might happen for that person somewhere else , at another time , with somebody else , but for sure nothing's going to happen , at least in the moment . It might happen for that person somewhere else , at another time , with somebody else , but for sure nothing's going to happen . You understand what I'm saying . Yeah .
Speaker 3That's for sure , that we know for sure . The question is if you pray for people , are you sure they're going to get healed ? No , I am not sure .
Speaker 1But that doesn't mean I shouldn't .
Speaker 2they might , that's right what is going on in el salvador right now ? Well what are you doing ?
Speaker 3el salvador has has , uh , had a major transformation by the new president . It's a very poor country . Average retail wage labor wage is about $12 , $13 a day . Very poor place . But the new president and gang-ridden . When I say gang-ridden , I'm talking about the murder capital of the world wow it was .
Speaker 3But the new president bukele , came in about four or five years ago I think it was arrested over 60 000 gang members or suspected gang members . The guy has been accused of violating civil rights all over the place and I'm sure that's the case . But he cleaned up the streets and now it's the safest place at least in Latin America . It's got a better murder rate than the United States does Wow . But I got introduced to El Salvador about seven years ago . A friend of mine who was a missionary asked me to go down there and it was just at the time when I was wanting to do more outreach . I call them power evangelism outreaches . So I made a deal with them . I said you know , I'll go down there with you , but I want you to try to gather me a crowd and let me know what that's going to take . So he says we're going to need some bucks , we've got to put some money together .
Speaker 3I have a nonprofit that I started in the 90s called the Kids Connection , because it was geared mostly towards kids in jail . But now I just kept the nonprofit and out of the nonprofit we pull out money in El Salvador to buy food to give away at these outreaches and one of the . It's one of the things that attracts people there because they're very poor . I mean , you give them a bag of food and it's like gold . I'm talking about a five dollar bag of food is like gold to them . So we give away the food , we gather a crowd and we do power evangelism .
Speaker 3And the Lord showed me some things down there , really cool . He said you declare my kingdom and I'm going to show up and do some good things . And he said to me something that really kind of took me back . Something that really kind of took me back . He says , john , you declare it and I'll do it . And I didn't know what it meant , but I found out that it meant if I declare that people are getting healed , healings will take place . If I don't declare people are getting healed , not so many healings are going to take place . Now you figure that out . I've been trying to figure it out , but I think it's the partnership , it's the co-laboring . See , from the beginning Jesus used people , right , he had 12 , he sent out 70 more and then he left them to do it . He left all his followers to do it , to do everything he was doing , and they did . Unfortunately , we've gotten away from that today in the modern-day church .
Speaker 1There's something about speaking it out , and speaking it out is part of it Speaking it out . And , like you know , there's data on marriages that pray together out loud . You know there's . You know I've read somewhere that reading the Bible was , for thousands of years , done out loud , not just like actually that reading silently is a fairly modern thing , actually that reading silently is a fairly modern thing . And and you know , there's , like I don't know , there's maybe some modern new agey stuff like declare it , believe it , or whatever . But there there's power in speaking stuff out loud of course , right , that's how god started .
Speaker 3Things didn't ? Yeah the word . He said he declared he spoke and it was right . Yeah , and that's true to a certain extent . It's more true , or very true , when you're actually partnering with Almighty God . Yeah .
Speaker 1You know what .
Speaker 3I mean , I mean , what I say in my book is and I really , really , you know , not just I don't need the money for this book . If you go on Amazon and get my book , it's called Just as it Is In Heaven . Just as it Is In Heaven . This takes you through my life and my experiences with an ordinary guy . On the bottom of the book it says an ordinary man encounters the supernatural . That's what happened to me . I was just a regular schmo , I was a nobody , a nothing , a terrible , terrible person who God changed and introduced me to the supernatural aspect of knowing him . And it can happen to anybody .
Unleashing God's Power Through Willingness
Speaker 3So don't disqualify whoever's listening , don't disqualify yourself from being used by God . Just don't , because he'll use anybody who's willing , anybody who gets the least bit hungry . I promise you he will use you . So take a chance the next time you're at Walmart , pray before you go in and say Lord , I would really like to be used by you today . I would really like to be used by you today . Show me somebody that you love in this store , that you want to touch and show your love to , and I guarantee he will do that . I guarantee it and I guarantee he'll use you . All right , all right . What you ? What you have to do is take the risk of failure , of it not happening , of people rejecting you . Okay , but like I say to everybody in my meetings , I I've never been hit in the face yet I haven't been hit nobody , nobody smacked me and say get out of my face , dude , at least not yet .
Speaker 3So the book . I'm going to say it again because I love this book . I read it myself , just as it is in heaven . It's a good book . I've read it . Amazon .
Speaker 2John Pacilio . Thank you so much for joining us .
Speaker 3It's been a pleasure I've been encouraging myself here today .
Speaker 1I hope that I'm as hungry for the power of God at 18 . It's almost 18 . Oh yes , it's been encouraging . Yes , Thanks guys . Thank you All right , thanks . Thank you .
