The Uncommon Path
"The Uncommon Path" is a podcast that intimately explores the transformative journeys of individuals, featuring raw and unfiltered testimonies that celebrate the resilience, growth, and shared human experiences, offering listeners a source of inspiration and connection on their own life paths. Join us as we unveil the extraordinary stories that shape who we are.
The Uncommon Path
Matt Ciancarelli - From Lineage and Military to Faithful Transformation: Embracing Heritage, Spiritual Evolution, and Love Amidst Duty
Matt Cianciarelli shares his powerful testimony of faith and military service, detailing his journey from a Catholic upbringing to becoming a service member, where he experienced God's presence during challenging deployments. Through stories of personal struggles and divine interventions, Matt emphasizes the importance of trusting God's plan and the transformative power of faith in unexpected moments.
• Discussing his Italian heritage and upbringing in a Catholic family
• Navigating doubts and discovering personal faith during teenage years
• God’s intentional placement of people, such as his wife
• The significance of Psalm 91 during his deployments
• The emotional toll of military service and suicide rates among veterans
• Reconciling military duty and faith in combat situations
• Understanding life’s transitions and trusting in God’s purpose
• The call to encourage genuine connections and share life experiences
Hey everyone. This is Chris. I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast. The scripture, revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.
Speaker 2:Our hope is that as you listen, you will be encouraged in the Lord. This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him. We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives. Matt Cianciarelli, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Do you have a fact about yourself that not many people know?
Speaker 3:You should have prepped me for that one. Yeah, I guess the one that always seems to come up my son was just talking about it the other day was my mother's uncle was the prime minister of Italy. Wow, you know, I can never remember his name, unfortunately, but yeah, something like that. He only lasted like 18 months and then he got like left or impeached or something like that no way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I never really followed it up, but my mother's side of the family kind of got into politics a little bit. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I mean, that's really it. I can't think of anything else.
Speaker 2:that's really exciting about myself. Does your family know Italian? Do you know Italian?
Speaker 3:No, it's ironic in today's day and age. And it's ironic you bring it up because I always said I wish I would have been brought up bilingual. In today's day and age, it's an asset, right? So no, my mom's family came here in the early 1900s and my dad's around the same time. Mom's family came here in early, in the early 1900s and my dad's around the same time, and um, at that point in time that there was they. They tend to only speak in the house or, you know, or in the community where they grew up, and um, but when I was growing up, it was like no, you know, my mom, like you, learn English. Like is what my mother learned, and my father and his you know grandparents learn English, speak the language. It was just different.
Speaker 1:it wasn't like it was really you know it wasn't seen as like a valuable thing.
Speaker 2:I guess yeah it was well, my, my wife's grandfather's from mexico, okay, and he moved to the midwest and he did the same thing okay he said don't ever speak spanish, because it was this, it was this place of like, honor, of being like hey, we want to honor the country and we want to speak their language.
Speaker 3:And so, like none of his kids knew Spanish, yeah, I can see it, I mean it wasn't like it was forced, you know, like don't know, you know, but they just would converse you know, or, and uh yeah, I just never was brought up like it is now, where you know parents will speak to their children in english and whatever their native tongue is right and um, and they just go through that or whatever their history. So again, I, maybe I'll get over to the community college and or was it a stone or something and I think it's good right.
Speaker 3:You always want to educate yourself anyway, and it'll be kind of neat.
Speaker 2:But yeah, um matt, where. So give us a little background of what your relationship with God was like. Did you grow up viewing him as a relational God, or did you view him as kind of a boss up in the sky? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:Again, I keep saying ironic because you know, you and I know each other a little bit and I've shared some of this, but not I look, you know, retrospectively, you look on these things right now as a believer. You look back and you say, gosh, you know where, where did it all start? You know there's some believers who can say God, that day was the day I turned my life over to Christ. I have some of that in a way, but, like your question is really valid. So, you know, being brought up in a Italian immigrant type family, um, you know we were Catholic.
Speaker 3:So, or they are Catholic, I should say, and I just always felt a sense, you know, I don't, I think people who don't want to be believers, they debate with themselves. Is that my conscience or is that the Holy Spirit in my heart? You know, and and when I was growing up, I think I always felt as though I was talking to God. You know, in my time and space, whether I was a little kid or or in the times when I was in the military, you know you're by yourself, you know hoping to get some guidance and strength. But so I'd say that started then.
Speaker 3:And the reason I believe that, ryan, is because when I started getting into my teenage years, that's when I started having doubts about not my faith but what I was practicing for my faith. So what I mean by that is, in the Catholic faith, you know, traditionally you're not supposed to go to mass unless you go to confession that week. Right, and if you miss communion, you know you have to go to confession. And I just kept saying to myself like I couldn't see how that was changing anything, because you know, I was like 19 or whatever. I would go to Saturday night mass and I'd go out and party with my friends like all night, you know, and you know 19,. I shouldn't even been drinking in the first place, you know.
Speaker 3:And so you know things like that. I just started questioning that, like what does that really mean? And you know, conversations with other friends and I, I believe God's brought people into my life at that point in time too, when I joined the Marine Corps, and and, um, and the different folks around me. So your question, you know, was it spiritual, was it? I think it, I think it was. You know, I think I always knew that and my, my, my parents, my dad, particularly at that time when I was growing up, was very into his faith and still is to this day.
Speaker 3:Um, he's great to have conversations with, cause he's Catholic, but he understands, you know, like I I think I told you this when I were having coffee that um, um, what's his name up there? Um, anyway, jerry Falwell. So my dad was a police officer, so he used to, and then he became like a security guard and um, like a state thing, and, and, uh, he used to listen to these pod or not pockets, but the radio shows, you know, and and uh, and he always says Jerry Falwell and Chuck from doll and some of these other people really changed his life. And so you know, I think about a Catholic you're listening to basically a Protestant preacher. You start learning different things and, um, but yeah, that's that's kind of how my faith developed and started and, like I said, the influences I had, um, growing up really began my, my walk, so to speak, if that's what you want to call it.
Speaker 2:Well, what age? What age was it where you started seeing the Lord kind of intervene in your life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Isn't it easier to look back at that now?
Speaker 3:and see that you know, I always say, testimonies are just so powerful because you can look back and go, gosh, yeah, I could see where the Lord was at. Yeah, I would say those times, right, I think in those times when I was like a late teenager, early 20s, going through college, things that were happening, you know, I think at that point I kind of started seeing where the Lord was starting to place me. I'd go, you know, I'm in my mid fifties, so I, you know, thinking back to when I was 25, 30 years ago, so that's a long time, right. So the one in particular that jumps out because it's life altering for me, is when I met my wife. So I was getting ready to graduate college, I was already in enlisted Marine and I was applying for officer candidate school. So I was banking on graduating in May and then going to officer candidate school in August and it didn't turn out that way. I got a call from my lieutenant and he's the lieutenant recruiter and he's like, hey, you know, I'm going to push you back. So there's only three classes a year. Back then, uh, there was like an, a late summer one, a winter one, like a spring one, if I remember correctly. And, um, he's like I'm going to push you back a year. I got three other candidates that are better candidates than you that are.
Speaker 3:I just went and got a couple other jobs and then eventually I knew I was going to. I eventually got the contract to go that following um, I guess it would have been May, so the following May, right. So three classes and um, I was. I was prepping for that I go. Yeah, I went and worked at this restaurant. A bunch of the people that I went to school with, guys and girls, they were working at this particular restaurant it was an Italian cafe actually and so I'm working at this restaurant as like, a host during the day, which I didn't need to get there until 10 o'clock, which was good, and then I was serving tables at night, you know. So I was making a little bit of cash to just enough to live, but I was able to work out and stay in shape and also do the things I probably should have been doing, right.
Speaker 3:But I bring that up and how God influenced that, because one day I was working there and this young lady walks in and she's applying for a job as a waitress and turns out 27 years later she's my wife, you know, like um, and that's a whole nother story. But you know, when you look back at that and you say, gosh, why did God have that happen? You know, why did I have to go through that? Now, there was other things throughout that year that I had to go through personally in development. I can't remember all of them, but I just know that was a very difficult year for me, um, but being able to do that and then seeing and looking at, like you can't tell me that God didn't put us together.
Speaker 3:And you know she's heard the story a million times, cause, you know, and then we started dating and you know she was actually going through a pretty rough relationship too. She was with somebody for many, many years and you know she was in her. She just graduated school, so she was like maybe 21 or 22 at the time. I was turning 24, you know 25, something like that. So you know it was like that whole process.
Speaker 3:So, looking at that was definitely, definitely, you know, a God intervention. And that's, I think, to be honest with you, not at that particular time. But her family, also an Italian or Sicilian family um, they were kind of transitioning out of their Catholic faith, following into a non-denominational, you know, christian church during that time or maybe before a little before that, if I remember I can't remember exact dates on their side, but you know, again, she got placed into my life and I was just telling you guys earlier that you know, she's just such a strong believer, her faith is so strong and she, she, I see how that helped me, you know, in my walk. Again, I can give you some more processes through that and walk was just amazing, man, you know, and I always get a little. Oh, let me just I'm setting this up now, I'm an Italian guy, I'm emotional, okay.
Speaker 3:Just saying you know, I heard a pastor recently say you know, men, don't cry, we're strong. And he goes. Have you ever watched a man watch a sporting event? You know, have you ever seen a man compete in any sort of event like they're emotional? And this is just so. Once I finally was able to, um, let my guard down, so to speak, after meeting. Uh, mr king, as I told you earlier, I said the first, uh, the first 42 years of my life, I, I don't think, I think I cried maybe three times. You know, emotionally, since him, 12 years, 14 years, I've cried every day since. But, uh, but no, I, I only bring that up because you know, yeah, I love my wife and, and you can never explain that love, but just knowing how she had to play in the process of my faith walk is just amazing.
Speaker 2:How was, was, was she? Did she like kind of challenge you and where you were in life or A little?
Speaker 3:bit. I mean she still does, I mean she, that's why she's such a great wife, right, like sometimes I'll do things and she'll challenge me on that, you know, but not necessarily I think we you know as a, as a as a husband and wife, you want to walk together as best you can, but we're still different people and we're still in different parts of our walk and they ebb and flow.
Speaker 3:But at that point in time I think she was starting to establish herself, you know, as a as a Christian and what her walk. And and then I just remember, because we were stationed after we got married and this again I'm fast forwarding a little bit here but we were stationed at Camp Lejeune and I can't get past the Lejeune. It's Lejeune to me. I'm sorry, I'm worked through that. But she decided after there was two other Marines in my life at that point that were one was a believer who was bringing myself, and another guy along with him. He was starting to explain the Bible to us in certain things, because in the Catholic church, unless you make an effort, you're not really reading the bible very often by yourself.
Speaker 3:Right, you have to make that personal effort because it's just when you go to mass, it's just not the same. You know as you what you would see in in a bible church. So anyway, she decided she wanted to go to this bible church. This other marine friend of mine was going to jacksonville bible church right here in north carolina, and uh, so we went. You know, and you guys will laugh, I go, she knows this, I go, we're going to start. I said. I am, I just want to know.
Speaker 3:I'm not hugging anybody, I'm not hugging one person when I walk in this way. I didn't know what I was getting into, you know, and I only, you know, you're lucky. Anyway, at that point, you know, I was like nobody's touching me, you know. But I walk in and um, there were again, it was right in our military base town, you know, of Jacksonville, and I saw a bunch of Marines I knew, especially some senior officers, you know, and pilots that I knew, and I was like you go here, you know, like it's weird, you know, and I think that brought my comfort level down a little up a little bit, you know, and brought my hesitation down.
Speaker 3:And then, really, what got me at that point was the worship. I mean, I, you know, I'm coming from a traditional catholic background and, um, the worship was just a couple guitars and you know, and it was just it's, you know, it gets it's it's yeah, and I will.
Speaker 3:I'll take you back a little bit. So, um, when I went to paris island for boot camp for basic training, they call it, um, you only get two options on the, so those drill instructors are in your face 24 hours a day, right. But on Sunday they allow you to go to religious services and you have two options. You have Protestant or Catholic, that's it.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, and I was.
Speaker 3:Catholic right. So I'm like I'm going to Catholic mass but just to get away from these guys you know, because, it gives you time, it's like, it's almost almost like like no touch zone, you know like you get there and you're at church, they don't bother you, you know.
Speaker 3:But if you miss church, if you don't go to church, um, you get stuck in a squad bay. You know you're shining boots and buckles and you know they're there with you, even though they probably needed a break too, now that I know the other side of the curtain. But but when I went to those those masses they weren't like any other traditional catholic mass. I I mean the process is the same, because there's a traditional way you do Catholic mass, but with the singing and the emotion that you got from the recruits was overwhelming, and any Marine, enlisted Marine who went to Parris Island or San Diego listen to this knows what I'm talking about. I mean, it's got to be the same. Songs Like Swing Low. Sweet Chariot was one that I've never heard before.
Speaker 3:Read a traditional hymn but the way we sang it as a group of marine recruits at a catholic mass was nothing I've ever seen before and I think that really helped me in my growth, my spiritual growth. You know like I really was, like god's touching me. And then there was a couple times inside of those services or masses that you know I was struggling.
Speaker 3:You know it's marine, you know basic training it's not easy and um, you know, and emotionally I was just spent at one point, and that's the whole point of that whole process is to bring you to a level where you think you can't go anymore, physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally and you break that hurdle and now you know you're invincible, so to speak. Yeah, so, yeah, so that those sorts of things. And then going to that church and you know her walking next to me and developing it, and then again, remember, you know her walking next to me and developing it, and then again.
Speaker 3:Remember you know I deployed a great number of times, and not just to combat and, like you, would go and do things and she was alone a lot, so she was developing her own spiritual walk at that time. She's got a great testimony too about that and how she rededicated her life at a Greg Laurie event when I was overseas overseas one time.
Speaker 3:So it's really cool to hear that story too, and um, and it's funny. On greg, I'm all over the map right and my add is kicking in here. But greg lorry, I started listening to him a few years ago on the radio, like on the, you know, oh yeah and, um, I'm like, oh, I love this guy. You know, and I never knew that was the event she went to the time she rededicated herself.
Speaker 3:So when his movie came out a couple years ago she's like I really want to go see this movie because that was the event I went to when I rededicated my life. And I go oh no wait, man, I've been listening to him. I love this guy, you know, so it's just kind of neat that's cool.
Speaker 2:Anyway, sorry, no, you're good, it's way off track there. No, no, it's good. What, what, um? So what brought you into the Marine Corps, and where are some areas that you saw the Lord move in your life, other than the ones you've already mentioned, while you were in the Marines?
Speaker 3:That could be a whole other hour conversation, but we'll hit on that. So what brought me to the Marine Corps? So my dad's the youngest of 10. My mom's the youngest of six and all of the brothers served wow and um, you know, if you think all of them served, all of them served and my dad and the marines no, no, no, no, I'm the first marine actually um army, navy type stuff okay um and uh, even in the extended family, um, I was the first marine, my niece is a naval officer, um, there's a couple other, but anyway, no-transcript from that.
Speaker 3:They were. You know, you got to think about this. Like, my dad was born in 1940. So his brothers, you know, fought like World War II Korea, you know that kind of thing. And um, they just were always diehard. You know Patriots and even coming from you know that kind of a family and seeing my mom on the other side, you know they, they had all those serving in the Korean war, just serving in general, Right.
Speaker 3:My dad served for two years in the sixties with his brother and um, so I always had this sense of, like you know, wanting to get in, and I just always held this regard for folks who did it a little harder than the other, like I always just held. I don't know if it was like a self thing, where I always felt like I needed to prove something or anything. I think I shared this at solely one time, like I, I don't know what it was, but I always thought, like, if you could be the this, why not go for that? You know, and rather than just saying, hey, I did this. So, um, I remember the army rangers were always something that intrigued me. I, you know, I was always into the.
Speaker 3:When I was growing up, abc used to play this war week, uh, the after school movies or whatever they were on at like three o'clock or something like that, and I used to love like the Great Escape and Van Ryn's Express and all those movies, and so I just kind of got into it, I don't know. And then that was, I was born in 1970. So in 83, when the Beirut bombing took place, I was 13, right, pretty impressionable young man, and there was a couple of Marines that came back from that. They weren't. I don't know if they were in Beirut when it blew, you know when the embassy blew, but they were around that time. They were Marines and they came back and they were all tattooed up, you know.
Speaker 3:And they came back and one guy was dating a girl down the street from me, hit my friend's sister and a couple of them. I can't remember if they grew up, but a lot of the adults in our neighborhood knew them, you know. So they were like rock stars, you know. And and then I started saying Marines, man. And then my dad, like Marines, you know, like nobody wants to be a Marine who?
Speaker 2:wants to be a Marine. You know, don't?
Speaker 3:you have to like kill one of your parents or something you know all those crazy things.
Speaker 3:But no, I think at that point then I really started getting into it and I started getting into wanting to serve more and, um, you know, if my sisters ever heard this, they'd laugh, because I always thought I was Batman. You know, growing up and uh, and you know, batman serves the public. So I just kind of saw it as that regard, like how can I go do good things but also challenge myself? And you know, subconsciously too, ryan, I think that I look at it saying, oh gosh, you know, look what Matt did. You know, that's self-preservation in a way, and that's something I had.
Speaker 3:I struggled with pride a little bit and still to this day, and that could be it, I don't know. But so that's what drew me kind of that way. And I was going to enlist out of high school and a recruiter came over and everything, my, my dad had this thing about, you know, enlisted an officer and you know they were all enlisted people in the service and he's like you know, an officer is like an executive, like a manager, and you know you always want your kids to hopefully do just something a little better or different than what you did and um, so he wanted me to become an officer.
Speaker 3:If I was going to go into service and I'm like I don't care, I just want to be a Marine. You know, okay, I won a, a memorial scholarship, which was like a grant, um, to go that I could use towards my tuition at school. So I wasn't smart enough to go to a D1 school to play like a and I wasn't probably nearly good enough to play at that level. Maybe I probably would have made the team but never played, kind of thing. But so I ended up, uh, taking that money and going on and playing at school and my dad's like it. Like you can always go into the marine corps, but you can't always go get this opportunity to go play in college and have a degree. He's always about degrees, you know, it's about your education.
Speaker 3:So I did, I went and did that and then um was failing out. You know, just got away from, you know life and you know living in a, in a family where your parents are always on time, and I probably, and I had a girlfriend for many years through high school and into college. We broke up. I was just like a mess, you know, and I always wanted to join the Marine Corps. So I'm sitting, you know, I, I, I got, I I didn't get booted out of school, but I, you have to maintain at least a two oh to be on a varsity team. So I lost that, so I wasn't able to compete that year. So I was working at a gas station that summer it was May, like right after I left school, like the first couple of weeks of May, and I called a recruiter and.
Speaker 3:I'm like, hey, any way this can work out. He's like, yeah, we got this program where you could come in, go to bootcamp. We'll send you back to school, we'll send you on to your follow-on training and know, and then after you graduate, you can apply to officer candidate school or you can apply to go back into Marine Corps full-time, you know, whatever you want to do, one of those I'm like I'm in man, like that sounds great. You know, I literally this was a I think I called him like on a Monday or Tuesday, wednesday I went down and signed all the paperwork because I was already remember I was leaving high school, I did all the work already, like the physical and you know, like all that. So I was already able to get in.
Speaker 3:You know, mental, all that stuff. I'd go home and wednesday night in our house we had we used to have like it's called gravy but like pasta and sauce. You know we used to make it on sundays and have leftovers on wednesdays and so we're sitting there eating or at dinner it was my, my mom, sitting across from me or next to me, my dad, and I'm like, hey, how was work today? I go, I didn't go to work, I left work, I joined the Marines and you should have heard the fork hit the plate you know, and you know my dad's like well, good, at least you won't be hanging around here all summer.
Speaker 3:So but my mom was a little emotional about you, know, I'm her only boy, no-transcript, and then you know we can go into the career here later.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. I'm sorry. When we talked at coffee you had mentioned this reoccurring theme that the Lord spoke.
Speaker 3:It was through a certain verse A psalm that's during a deployment, yeah.
Speaker 2:Will you take us through that? Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good one.
Speaker 3:That's what that's what the props are for over here actually um, I was hoping we'd get into it, because it really is a whole separate story on its own.
Speaker 3:It's really really unique because and I don't know how much impact it'll have without going through the story prior to, but let's do it and see where we get here because it is impactful on its own, cause it, even though I was a believer at the time, you know at the end of this thing to see how God worked and you just learn how to trust them. It's almost like the finishing well that we talk about. You know at solely. So what happened was I was um, I was a, so I was a reconnaissance Marine and um and got into the Raiders, helped develop that, that program there. So I was at one of those units, um, I was the operations officer for third force reconnaissance company at the time and and um, we were supposed to take the whole group out to deploy, and then it it that was like can I, can I ask a very?
Speaker 2:this is a. I want you to answer this as honest as you can. For us who aren't in the military, how badass is that position.
Speaker 3:Well, no, look, you know me.
Speaker 2:I'm just a regular guy, right? If you were explaining someone else, how would you say? Would you be like that's a badass position? No, no.
Speaker 3:What it is is each branch of service has their own kind of special operations group. Right and before the Marine Raiders or Marine Special Operations Command came about, the Marine reconnaissance groups. So there's a force reconnaissance company and a reconnaissance company and they work together in what's called the reconnaissance mission and they work together in what's called the reconnaissance mission. That was the Marine Special Operations Group at the time and they still are. They still fall into that realm. So the best way to explain that is each department of defense Army, navy, air Force, marines, coast Guard or even the Air Force the Air Force has got a really beefy program but they each have their own little division and you have to try out for it and then you have to go through the schools and it's tough and it's everything you think it is. So every capability you have to meet a certain capability that Special Operations Command or SOCOM has as a standard and you have to get through those standards in order to do it and then it just evolves after that.
Speaker 3:So I was very honored to be part of it. It wasn't the easiest thing. Anybody who knows me knows I have to take every test twice, physically or academically. So it was difficult and I'm very proud of that time. I spent the majority of my time doing that and I loved it. But that's some of the reasons why I left active duty and went into the reserves and did it as a reserve officer or I should say it was a reserve Marine in on an active duty unit. But so, yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it is, without getting really you know, I didn't want to derail you.
Speaker 1:No, you're good man, it's all good, that's good. That clarifies a little bit yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean look. So I'm thinking like Jason Bourne type stuff. No, no that's super tier. One level stuff man. No, this is your everyday.
Speaker 2:Green Beret.
Speaker 3:Ranger SEAL.
Speaker 2:It's just your everyday Special Forces guy. That's the thing People get confused.
Speaker 3:There's the Special Operations Command and the Special Forces are a group inside of that. So the Army Special Forces are their own, little like the Marine Reconnaissance Units. But anyways, I was with these guys. We're getting ready to leave. They were tasked this was like 2006, 2007, something like that 7, 8. We just stood up Marine Special Operations Command they call it MARSOC and so they're starting to take on some missions, and then they say, okay, you guys, we're not sending a whole group out, we're only sending a small group out. So I kind of got bummed from the deployment. Well, at that time though, you know, fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, in like late 2008, early 2009, president Obama's decided to do this troop surge because it worked in Iraq. So now he's like, if we do this in Afghanistan, we may get the same results. So all these different groups are asking for people hey, who're developing this civil military operations teams to go out and help work with, like the civil authorities inside of these places inside of Afghanistan. So they're looking for everybody, man, like lawyers and anybody.
Speaker 3:And then they start looking into these combat guys like me, you know, and say, hey, if we can help you, if we can get you guys on these teams too, you know, because it's such a kinetic environment, you know, it'd be great to kind of mix all these different scenarios or different experiences together. So I ponied up and said, yeah, I'll go, man. So they sent me to school, you know, a couple of weeks and I go and I get the civil military operations, mos, and I take this team out to Afghanistan. So I'm getting ready to leave and, um, and now, by this point, I have three kids. I have, uh, I have two kids. I have, uh, my, I have two boys. I have a boy, girl, boy, and, uh, at that point my oldest boy was now 25. Um, I think he was in like fifth grade, and then my daughter was in like second grade or something like that, and I had this little guy who was like two, you know. So they, they don't really like, my oldest son got it, he get it, he was, he was around a lot of that. So I think he, he understood it, but my, you know, my little guy.
Speaker 3:So they were making these um, things called daddy daddy dolls and you may have seen them. Now they're pretty popular, but at the time it was just for the military and you go, you take a picture or two and they, they take, they make it into a doll like this big. I was going to bring it here to show you guys, but I know nobody can see what we're talking about. So so they're about 18 inches long and maybe about or so or 24 inches long and it's a picture of you. So I took a picture, like in my camouflage utilities and then in, like my dress uniform, so they'd have two of them, and then at the bottom you were able to write something. So I got three of them made.
Speaker 3:So I'm like I'm gonna leave scripture. I'm a believer at the time, you know, and I'm really relying upon the lord and I was really walking with the lord strong at that point. And so I I opened, if opened up, if you open your Bible, just open it Generally, you'll land on Psalms, right, it's like right in the middle, right Generally. I mean so and I do, I open it up and I'm I'm particularly looking for Psalm 23 because I always thought that was a very good one. It's something I recited all the time and I opened it up and I opened it up to Psalm 91 and I'm like gosh you know, I don't remember reading Psalm 91.
Speaker 3:It's just kind of weird that I opened it up. So I start reading it and if you're familiar with it, it really is God's protection of the warrior and he talks a lot about that in there. And if you ever read anything about it too, it talks about that, how he keeps certain things away from the warrior and you won't stub your foot and, you know, get injured and all the metaphoric stuff in the Old Testament that you're used to, that you're used to. And so I read it and I was like this is pretty cool, like this. I couldn't have played this any better. So I put it on the daddy doll on one of them. I put Psalm 23 on one of them, but I put Psalm 91 on it. And then you know how the Lord tugs at you and I just like man, you know this is just on my heart. So I this was. You know that I was getting ready to leave. I left, I get out there and I don't remember. This is a while ago so I don't remember everything like if I was studying it at the time, but I did make a point to constantly read about it and stuff. So I land, I mean I'm in country for maybe two or three days.
Speaker 3:I meet up with the team leader I'm going to relieve. In other words, he's leaving, I'm coming in, and you know you can become a short timer. You don, I'm coming in and uh, you know, when you become a short timer you don't want to go out on any missions or anything, right? So, um, so he's like hey, I'm going to send you out down to the spot I'm just going to skip the names and everything but I'm going to send you down a spot. I want you to link up with our contact down there. And uh, I'm like, okay, so I get in that night.
Speaker 3:I guess the next morning we get on this truck and we drive a couple hours, you know, and get out there. I meet up with like a security team and I'm like, all right, it's getting to be like sundown and so usually good things don't happen at night. So I'm like, all right, we're going to go, let's go. So we start walking off. You know, we got an Afghan army patrol Like it was just basically a pickup truck with a heavy and we get lit up at this intersection where we're going to this village, to to me. So that's a whole another. So we get lit up, we get in this big firefight um takes a couple hours get out of it.
Speaker 3:You know one of those deals I get back to the fire base and you know you're just jazzed and um, and it was a little fire base and I, I, when I give them, I've given this did anyone get like?
Speaker 2:no, no, thank god, there was no.
Speaker 3:No casualties, no injuries uh, we were really fortunate um because we walked right into this thing and uh, but we get back to this fire base, this outpost, and, um, they call them combat alphas or cops. We get there and there's no electricity. There's nothing. You're living out in this blown up building. The chaplain had a little box in his little area. The chaplain rotates through these places. There was some books and magazines. In the middle of the night. I can't sleep. I've only been in country for not even 48 hours. I think it was a very short period of time, maybe three days at max. I'm pretty jazzed up and I can't see anything. It's dark, right. So I just reach into this and I pull out this it's like a little tiny, thin book about this big and I pull it out I think I still have all these things that I'm going to mention and they open it up and I finally get my little light on it, my little red light, when I get back to where I'm like sitting and sleeping, and it says psal 91, the warrior's version.
Speaker 3:And it's just this woman's kind of summation of it and I'm like, wow, isn't that kind of ironic? And you always think God's just amazing. So I read through it, I'm like that's pretty cool and then didn't think anything of it. So then that was probably. I got there in late September, I guess. So this is maybe getting close to Thanksgiving and morale around the holidays isn't very good and the weather was very similar where I was in Afghanistan. It was very similar to where we are here climate-wise. It would get cold and rain and sometimes snow barely, but it was like just like this. So we're starting to get to that rainy November time. You guys know what I'm talking about. It's like, like you know, highs in the 50s or 60s, but it's in the night, it's like in the 30s and 40s. So guys are getting kind of run down. They're. The tempo is pretty high.
Speaker 3:So we start receiving at our main fob, the outpost, where the colonel you know the big shot, big leadership stays. So that's where we were headquartered at. So I'd go back there periodically and then I'd go back out to see the guys and work with them. And so I go up there and I'm with my security element guy and a couple other people and the chaplain has a tent there and it's just getting filled up with like holiday stuff, right, like people are just sending all kinds of things.
Speaker 3:So I go in to get some candy for the guys, you know, and there's a bunch of magazines in there and I saw a couple of them and one of the guys that was with us he was a big hunter, so I saw a hunting magnet. So I grabbed like a stack of these things but they're wet, you know, like you gotta understand. Like it was like anything you could think of, like no electricity, no nothing. Everything was run off of generators. If it was raining, it was raining through your tent. You know what I mean? It was miserable and anyway. So I grabbed this stuff. I go back to our little and I start handing out.
Speaker 2:I'm like hey, man he's magazine, you know.
Speaker 3:And uh, and I get a magazine I forget what it was and and something stuck on the back and I I flip it over and there's a laminated card about two inches by two inches and it's Psalm 91. I know you cannot make this stuff up, so it's Psalm 91. It's just the, that's all it is on this one laminated card. And I still have it and I was like gosh man. You know this is crazy. So again, being a believer, you know a lot of the words work in your life, but you really don't understand how or why. So I take that card and you know you have a, I wear a vest, you know, with my rifle and my ammo and stuff, but there's a spot where it's and you could stick like maps and stuff in there. I stuck this card in there. I'm like, you know, I'm going to carry this with me. It means a lot. When I get some time, I'm just going to continue to look at it and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Well, that's around Thanksgiving, Around Christmas. It's getting worse, right, Weather's getting terrible. Guys have been, you know, fighting for several months. It's just a lot. And so, again, a lot of gifts coming in. One thing about the american people sidebar here is they're immensely generous people, as we see with, like the hurricane and the fires now, like they'll do anything to help their brothers and sisters. Political, religious belief doesn't matter. It was an outpouring of stuff. You couldn't. There was more stuff coming into that chaplain's tent that we could give away, like we started giving it to the afghan people, you know, like different candies and like soccer ball, like anything you can get your hands on, well, anyway, so I go in there to get some more of these like candies and I'm a little selfish.
Speaker 3:I wanted some too, you know, and there's just a bunch of like Christmas cards in there and stuff. So I get those things and I'm handing them back out and I I made it a point to bring all eight of my guys back to the main fob for Christmas Eve and Christmas day. There was no mission on the books, you know, we weren't doing anything. So I brought them back in and we had this really nice meal and stuff, but I wanted to make sure that everybody came in. So I started handing out some of these so-called gifts and I kept a card for myself, you know, and I forget what else was in there. You know, I was hoping like there was like gift card in there and I'm like what am I gonna do with this gift card, if I get it?
Speaker 3:anyway, I can, I wasn't on the computer or anything. So anyways, I get this gift card or this card out and it's from some women's Bible study in Texas, so I read through it. You know we're praying for you Merry Christmas. Psalm 91. They signed the Bible.
Speaker 2:Holy cow.
Speaker 3:Tell me what the chances that are right.
Speaker 3:So again I mean yeah, it gives you chills, right, it makes my neck stand up. It's just unbelievable. So that unbelievable so, um, so that that to me was like okay, this is for real now, like it's going. You know, there's definitely something around this. I don't know what it is, so I really start like pouring into the verse and trying to figure it out. The unfortunate thing is like today I probably can't recite the whole thing, or even close to it, but so I'm kind of beating myself up mentally right now. But but yeah, it was, it was a big deal for me, right. So I'm trying to think if there was another event before that. I don't think there are after that, but I don't think there was until this particular time which I'm going to take out.
Speaker 3:my my so I end up. I end up hurting my shoulder. Um, actually, I was lifting some weights and I kind of hurt it and I didn't know it was that bad, and then I just kept going and what we found out later was that I had a minor tear in my labrum. So my what?
Speaker 2:was it? Oh, I just said that.
Speaker 3:You know everybody anyway, whatever that is up there, I forget. But when really bad rain and mud and um, they were picking us up, uh, with these vehicles late at night, and um, I go to get in the back and it's like my rifles clipped into my my right shoulder I'm righty, so it's clipped into my right shoulder. So I'm holding my rifle with my hand and I'm just stepping into the back of this vehicle and my foot slips and I reach out with my left arm, which is my left shoulder, and I grab onto this like post and it pops and I'm like oh no, like something definitely happened, right. And then we were setting up this it's a long story but there's certain term for it, but I'm not going to get into it but we were like checking the livestock for the farmers and we were separating the farmers and the animals, cause it's just a safety and security thing and cause they used to like move weapons and drugs and communication through the animals, like they would hurt them.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. And so we would separate them and search, you know, make sure everything was cool, and plus we had veterinarians there to help the actual farmers. You know, we were trying to do the good thing, the right thing for them, and anyways, we're. There's these fences there that are like impacted with mud, they're like concrete, and I put my hand in there. I was wearing a glove and I'm trying to shut this gate, so I got my left hand in this and a Marine shoots his rifle at somebody across, like he's engaging from far away, but the noise startles the animals and they jump over this fence and pull me back.
Speaker 3:So that was the end of it after that it turns out that I had a 200 degree tear in my labrum. I tore six tendons in my bicep tendon off, dislocated my shoulder all throughout that period of time, like I had no idea, I just knew I was in pain, right, I had a chip bone in there. So I used to walk around with my left hand tucked into my magazine pouches and I'd walk with my rifle in the other hand. You know, and I just you know, it was February. I didn't want to leave because we were scheduled to leave in May. I just wanted to finish my deployment and go home, you know.
Speaker 3:So a couple days later or whatever, we're out and we're against the bank of this river. There's an engagement going on. I lift my rifle, I try to hold it with my left hand and I just can't hold it up and it drops and my assistant team leader grabs me and he just had a baby while we were gone. He grasped me, he goes you're going, because if you're going to go anywhere to get serious medical treatment, you have to kind of get evac'd out. It's like, and you may never come back, like they may say no, you need surgery or whatever. So I didn't want to. And then, when he got my face, I was like you know, the right thing to do is just like an athlete, right, you don't want to go on a go on the field and hurt your team and fail. I could get these guys killed if I didn't wasn't doing the right thing. So you take that stuff seriously. And so that's what I did. I went to the corpsman and said, hey, I'm going to have to go get this looked at. So they ended up flying me to Germany, and it turns out that I was pretty jacked up and needed surgery that they couldn't do in Germany. So now they're flying me back to Camp Lejeune, you know, and all that. So, so, anyways, so I get to launch duel, which is where you get to be back to the medical facility.
Speaker 3:And one thing I got to tell you um, again, the medical staff is just unbelievable. Whether you got shot, you were sick, you hurt your shoulder, guy did. They treated everybody like they were a hero man. It was unbelievable. You get off this, you know, you fly into their, their, uh, tarmac, and they're out there like to get you. It's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable, and this is a long time ago, right? So, um, they get us all, even the wounded warrior project was waiting for us in there, and they register you with the wounded warrior product to make sure you get what you need, you know.
Speaker 3:And so, anyways, you get in. Remember, you're coming off the battlefield, so to speak. Right, all you got is what you're wearing and, um, and there's this place called the chaplain's closet and it's downstairs in the basement of this place where you're staying, and it's just stacked with like sweatpants and sweatshirts and underwear and anything you want to clean, and there's a bunch of. So just envision this, like if you were at a laundromat or at like a college dorm and you're cleaning your clothes. It's just a row of washers and dryers and then above it, from my recollection, was this shelves of like sweatpants, t-shirts and all that.
Speaker 3:So I know they can't see what I'm doing here, but this is what I saw when I walked in there. So I'm in there one day, I'm getting my stuff and I just see a stack of t-shirts like this. So, for those who can't see, it's just a stack of like green and white t-shirts and I'm like, okay, I didn't need some t-shirts. So I see this one, see this one here. It's like a camouflage. I go, that's pretty cool. What is that? Let me pull it out. So I pull it out and I realize it's not a t-shirt, it's a handkerchief. And when I open it up, you guys know what. This is right.
Speaker 1:We already know Psalm 91. Got to be Psalm 91.
Speaker 2:Embroidered on this handkerchief.
Speaker 1:Tell me how that happened For the, the listeners. It's not just the word psalm 91, it's the entire yeah psalm.
Speaker 3:It's the entire psalm 91, written on a hand, written on a, on a camouflage handkerchief. How, number one? How did I get there? Number two, why was it folded up like a t-shirt in a stack at the same spot? I went to, you know, and again, people can call a coincidence all they want, but when you retrospectively look at what that was, you you know what I mean and I got to tell you. This is the first time I've told the story that I'll bawl my eyes out because knowing God is such a good God all my wife and I were afraid of.
Speaker 3:I shouldn't have spoke too soon, but coming home either dead injured, it's tough man uh there's a lot of tears in this handkerchief, because every time I tell it and I use it, I do this right here. But, but I'm serious. Like it's not, these aren't, these are just tears of appreciation, man. Like it's just amazing that who would have thought that would have hurt my shoulder? You know what I mean? One of those deals, so that that's. And although, yes, my, my mission was cut short and all that, that was the beginning of the end of my military career, my, in my heart and mind, even though I served another 10 years or so after that, or whatever it was, it's just. The fact is that I started realizing what's really important. Am I really doing this for me or for them? Like, what am I doing it for? And you know, I did. I served my country and I served the people around me, and I did it because of that feeling. But looking back on it now, I could have left. You know just like many, many service members have left their families, you know. And and for some reason, god didn't want me to do that. He wanted me to get shoulder surgery, not be able to swim very good anymore, and those sorts of things. I'm you know I'm kidding a little bit. But I'm telling you, man like that was opening my eyes up to there's something bigger for me and God, god's got a plan. So now I tell my friends or those who want to listen, that if I'm to die tomorrow, be joyous because I've accomplished something God wanted me to do. I don't know what it is, I don't know if it's something that he I, god wanted me to do. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's something that I planted a seed, but to be through and any military member can tell you this, especially the guys and gals that do what I did it's not just going to combat, it's every helicopter flight you've been on every ocean swim, you've been in every live range you shot at. There's always an opportunity to get injured, killed, something, and to make it through all that and many, you know, hundreds of thousands of millions, have done it before me and millions will do it after. But I just look at it and saying there's a reason why God's got me doing doing what I'm doing sitting here with you guys, meeting others you know, being a TL at solely just all of those things or just meeting your neighbor. So I've taken that pretty serious.
Speaker 3:The last, like decade that those who I encounter I try to just be the best version light that I can. I don't know my wife and kids or whoever listens to this, will laugh and say he's a cranky guy all the time. But you know, I'm really fighting over that and and I I mean that. So this story alone I know I kind of rushed through it, but it's usually a 45 minute presentation that I give. I gave it to a couple of kids at school or um, but this here is just. It's a visuals are powerful and I know I unfortunately your listeners can't see it, but I'm telling you, man, when I pulled this thing out, I got on the phone with my wife and I. You know, that night I was like I'm coming home and I think I know why.
Speaker 3:You know one of those deals and so, uh, it's pretty cool to close friends of ours. We had like a little welcome home party and they got me these dog tags made with that on that Tom 91 and you know engraved in it and stuff.
Speaker 1:So um, was that your last?
Speaker 3:deployment yeah, my last combat deployment, yeah. So I got back from that in uh, 2011, 10, 10. And then, um I, I went back to that unit and worked more of like a staff. I did more training and certifying of raiders going overseas. I had a specialty right and they would send them out and so that was really it. And then I got mobilized because I was always working for an active duty unit as a reserve officer. It's like I was saying earlier, they have these billets inside of active duty units where you could be a reservist, so you're basically a part-timer on an active duty force. So I did that for a few years.
Speaker 3:And then I went over and worked as a liaison for the Marine Corps at FEMA, with FEMA here doing emergency management, which was the best billet of my life, because really serving the American people on American soil is a pretty amazing thing. So we reacted to everything mainly natural disasters here, but everything you know the riots, all that, but it was. You know these fires that are going on and the hurricane. That's where you would see a lot of the military guys you know the national guard and stuff get involved. So I did that for several years and then I was mobilized during the Afghan withdrawal, but I didn't go overseas, I was in the receiving end up in virginia and, um, that's when I got back from that I was like I'm done, like I literally got.
Speaker 3:I was gone for a few months and I'm like I came home and I'm like I'm retiring and my wife, she's such a great lady. She goes, she says, uh, yeah, I'm, I always wanted you to make that decision. I never wanted to push you into it, you know. So I'm, I'm good with it. I'm like, yeah, you were good with it 20 years ago. What are you talking about? Um, but she's a again, has been a fantastic wife, a fantastic military spouse, a great mother, just all that stuff, and she's just a great lady.
Speaker 2:So Are your, are your boys going to go into the military?
Speaker 3:No, so yeah, so my oldest is 25. My youngest is 19. My daughter's turned 22 and she's going to be a nurse. Now my older boy's a's finance guy. He, um, never had the interest.
Speaker 3:I don't know if that I I believe that all of the things that he saw while I was gone that my wife might've been struggling with, I think subconsciously or influence, that influenced him in a way. He's patriotic kid, don't get me wrong, but just military is not his life, you know. And then my younger kid I always thought he would. He he's like, just like me in a way, physically and mentally, and, um, he's got all the skills for it too, but he just, he's in a um, like an automotive apprenticeship right now. So now I don't. He's still young, I mean, who knows what's going to happen in his life? But, um, but now I don't see any military service.
Speaker 3:Now, like I said, my niece, who I'm very close with, you know that was her driving desire. I got to commission her, which means that I swore her in as an officer when she graduated from college, which was pretty cool. So I have that tie there. But, yeah, no, I don't see that happening. And it's all. Good man, you know, it's not for everybody, and you know that's why it takes a unique person sometimes.
Speaker 1:I do have kind of a question formed, it's like going back to the uh ryan's question of like why you know what got you into the military, and then you kind of answered for the time one of your bosses asked you that and it's like you have this kind of batman kind of thing, like I'm gonna go serve, I'm gonna, you know, kick butt for good, like, did that? Did the Psalm 91 thing in this whole story? Did that kind of put a bow on that? Was it where you're kind of like yep, I did it, I went there, I did what I was supposed to do and now God has is taking me in a different direction. Was that like a? Was it a turning point?
Speaker 3:that's a really good question. I you know I was. We're sitting and discussing this. That's why I'm really enjoying this conversation with you guys.
Speaker 3:Obviously I talk a lot too, but hopefully I'm talking slow enough because I talk a million miles an hour, I'd say, um, having kids first started my erosion of that kind of like, my, my desire to be that guy. You know, know what I mean? Like the like, just like you're talking about, um. And the reason I say that is because now you got a responsibility at home. Uh, not that you can't be married and have kids and do that stuff. I mean you can. There's they all do, you know.
Speaker 3:But I just think at that point I started second guessing things and I always told my wife, if she wasn't behind me I couldn't go do those things. Because you're constantly thinking about that, right, and you're not thinking about one little slip up. You know, if you don't do something right, you know rigging your harness or whatever it happens to be, it could hurt somebody or yourself. So I think that was really mentally and not spiritually, but just inside of my soul. And so there was never really any sort of conflict with my faith in what I was doing. And I talked to you about that a little bit, ryan, one time, but there wasn't really that. But I think at that point, so when that all happened, it was more of the fact. It wasn't that it was ending my service or wanting to serve and those, and it was more of my walk with Christ. I think that's really what that whole thing was about, and that's just me looking at it, looking back on it now, and I say that because I really feel like I wasn't trusting God, I wasn't making him the Lord of my life.
Speaker 3:There's been times in our marriage where and my wife turned me onto this and you'll know what I'm going to say here in a second but, um, my wife turned around. It's like, if God's not first in your life, if I'm putting my wife, my mission, my kids, my friendships ahead of anything, god's not number one, then where is he? And you may remember what I'm getting at here is you know, if God's not number one on the list, then he's not on the list. He has to be number one, because everything below number one competes for number one. Does that make sense? Yeah, so that's really to be honest with you. That's really where I think that was more of a faith journey for me. In a tangible way, people always want to say, hey, how did God speak to you? Well, you know, I don't know if God comes out and goes hey, orion, that.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know, maybe that happens.
Speaker 3:I just never had that. I think God speaks to me through either ideas that come to my mind, something in my heart, or things like that that I personally you know I'm a visual, tangible guy. I need to be able to touch and see things. I think that's it. I think that's what really did it for me. So I know that didn't answer your question.
Speaker 3:No, it did that, answered it the military more that the service part of it really came to. The fact was that I just loved doing it. I was in uniform. I mean, I'm turning 55 and I spent 31 years in the marine corps, so I've been in uniform more than I've been out of uniform.
Speaker 3:So I just the sense of service and being able to accomplish missions. Now I struggle now thinking back. Well, was it a pride thing too, you know, attaching my identity to that and I think that was part of it during that process. I mean, you're talking about a long time, right so, but it but I would never. The Marine Corps was very, very good to me and the military was very, very good. And I say that where, you know, I went to OCS with $7 and 41 cents in my checking account, like you know what I mean Like I had nothing and not nothing that materialistic. Like I had no future, like I was applying to become a cop you know those things. But you know it took me I wouldn't be in the civilian position I have now without that background, you know, and all that good stuff. So, um, it's mold me some good discipline and not wanting materialistic things in a way that some people do. I still struggle with that a little. I think everybody does a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:But it's like perspective. Right, you have that perspective. You've been overseas, you've been in a in battle, you've been shot at like it starts yeah, I mean getting. I can't imagine getting in a firefight with two kids back at home or three kids back at home. That's got to put it in perspective.
Speaker 3:Maybe that's why we're so shaky that night when I got back, no, that's a good point, but again I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not just living for you. If you don't have kids, you go overseas, you get killed in combat. Your country honors that. Your family will miss you, but, like if you do that with kids, their life is altered for their entire life. Is there's millions of them out there, right?
Speaker 3:they're all out there yeah, and I think we we lose that perspective as a society a lot. Um, yeah, around memorial day and veterans day, people get all jazzed up for the military, but remember those families they're living with. This is gonna sound kind of corny, but, um, when I got a civilian job I the first memorial day, I I wrote an email to my whole team of people. I was on a sales team and I I just I just titled it the empty seat. Uh, there's something like that.
Speaker 3:Or mtc did something like that, I can't remember and I was like, hey, when you're all out having a barbecue, playing whatever there's gonna's going to be, you know a family without a dad, you know what I mean. Things like that Like kids not going to be able to play catch, you know you get worked up because that could you're right, could have been my kid. So I take it seriously. But, yeah, I don't know if that way, I believe that eroded it a little bit too, but you know it's definitely. If you're thinking that way, that's when things start going south for you, you know, and you can't focus, and but I think you you can part. That's why it's been very difficult for me with my emotions and I kid a little bit about how emotional I am now in my later stages of life, but I used to compartmentalize everything, right, like you're out on mission, you're out on mission, you're, you're out on deployment, or you're doing whatever, and then you're home. You're home and some guys I struggled with it.
Speaker 3:My wife will tell you, you know, I had plenty of those post deployments or post being. You know, even when you just go away to like a school for eight weeks and you're in that environment, you come back, you know, and we did a lot of that um, prior to the invasion of iraq and afghanistan and those things. They were very small things, like we would go and do these things called mill to mill, where you would go out and train with a country, so like we'd go work with the special forces of whoever you know and you do patrols and train with them, and so you know, but I, so I deployed to three main places, you know, outside of those things. But so I think that if you're not, if you're not really focused and you're not looking at those things, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:You brought up a good question. I don't really have an answer for you. In a way, I think it's a great. It's going to be great for me to kind of meditate on that a little bit more and kind of digest it and figure out if that's really what it was. I don't think so, because I continue to serve after that.
Speaker 2:I kind of wonder and obviously you can take this to the Lord, but it's like hearing your story, I think what's really cool about the Psalm 91 being just reoccurring over and over again and then when you get injured and you fly back like the Lord acknowledging that the way he wired you is exactly the way you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean Like, like uh, almost like a father stamp of approval of. Like you think you did this for yourself or you think you've done this out of duty. This is actually how I've wired you, so you're actually doing what I've called you to do.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, A hundred percent man. And that's, I think you know, when you keep looking back on those things. That's why when I was asked to talk about the identity portion of that weekend, you know I stuck, I took it very seriously and studied for six months and I still believe the Lord put it on those guys hard to ask me to do that at that point in time in my life. I just retired from the Marine Corps, you know and and trying to figure that out.
Speaker 3:And uh, yeah, I'm a hundred percent agree with what you're saying. The Lord speaks to us in the ways that he knows he's going to get through to those, or you know, and that's why we're all made differently. And, um, yeah, I would agree with you, Ryan, that's, that's a good assessment of it and the way I looked at it too.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted to ask, like a believer, a strong believer, who's in the military, were there ever thoughts of reconciling, like killing people, being in the military? And I mean I'm sure you've, just you have to like, do people get caught up in? Am I doing something wrong and you're not, because you are trained to defend your country and everyone has to defend their country. Every country has to be defended. I'm just, I'm just curious, like were there any inner battles in you? I think one movie that always sticks out to me is like hacksaw Ridge. I find it so fascinating that this guy was so anti. Uh, he didn't want to kill anyone, and yet the Lord somehow provided a way for him to be such an asset in a way that no one thought he would be an asset.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, it's great. That's a great story right how God utilized him to do the things he did without him having to struggle with certain things right so look, that's. That's a difficult question for, I think, any service member or any combat veteran, right?
Speaker 3:so, um, whether they engage in combat or not, just being there and being part of it and seeing it, and those sorts of things, I think. I think it comes beyond a faith question, honestly, I think again, this is just one man's opinion, but I think it's a human question, right? I mean, you can, there's many, many stories out there and some that we don't even know. Why do you think there's such a high suicide rate? I mean, I don't know if it's that particular struggle. I mean there's many struggles that the value of worth that they feel and all those different things, or reconciliation with their family, it could be a million different things, but but I so that wasn't really a good statement, but the point is that I think it's just an internal struggle as a human. If you're involved in that sort of stuff, right, in that, that sort of um horror it's, it's going to weigh on you.
Speaker 3:It just it just does. Um, so, yeah, I think I think that's definitely a difficult something difficult that many, many people struggle with. Now I did hear so. The first true Bible church I ever went to in Annapolis, maryland, was called Bay Area Community Church. It's still a great church. It's expanded. The pastor there, this guy, greg Saints here, him and this other man, pastor Dan Bishop, totally changed my life in a small way because I was really growing exponentially there, but a couple of us, it was very.
Speaker 3:It was a big church that supported both the midshipmen of the naval academy as well as all the other military law and government law. Well, they were all there, you know, and everybody had this kind of struggle right, and I remember we all got more not we all, but a handful of us got mobilized. Uh, or we're getting ready to go to iraq or something like that, and it was ir, iraq, it was 03. And, um, and he preached on this exact thing about how do you, how does a believer, justify combat and war and all these different things. And uh, I have it on video, vhs, but uh, yeah, I haven't watched in a long, long time, but uh, but I remember him speaking about that and it kind of comforted me a little bit. But as a believer and the standpoint there, that's a struggle and um, and I think I shared with you that day that you know we, I got asked to speak to a lot of families, uh, where my kids went to school. You know they knew about what I did and of course every kid wants to come out of high school and either be like a Navy SEAL because of that. So they up, man, I didn't even get the fork in my mouth for dinner and she's like you know, how do you? Just same similar type question and I'm like look, you know, it's something.
Speaker 3:When you're for me, at least when I was out there and you know you're, you're, I think you're, you're willing, your will to live. And you know, like you brought up, you know you got a family at home, you want to go home and see, you'll do anything, anything you know, to get back, but you'll do any. In that moment you may not be thinking about that, you may be thinking about just your will to live. I mean, it's just a natural human, animalistic instinct, right and um. And then what happens? You know you got guys and gals next to you that you're trying to defend and fight for at that time.
Speaker 3:And it sounds so cliche, but it's true. I mean, when you're out there, it's just you guys, you know, and you know, and even you know your, your allied forces, that are with you. You're there to help. But, um, so I'm not answering it directly because I I think there's just so many facets to it and if you're asking me personally, like I just personally, you know, I'm looking out into space you're trying to get, you know, a good, good verbalization of I think that's really it. I mean, I just think that in the moment time you're slugging it out because you're trying to just live, you know, and you, you know you're defending yourself and the people around you at that point in time so you can get away from what you're doing, you know and or or accomplish the mission or whatever it is you're trying to do. But I know that that's a terrible answer, but, um, I think it's very individualistic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's very individualistic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know it depends on each individual person and some people can really. You know there's some people that really struggle with this and you know there's some I could tell you right now there's I feel like I haven't done anything compared to some of the people I hold at high standards of combat veterans and heroes, and I mean there's some people in my mind I can rattle off right now names of people that are just like. Those folks are warriors. I didn't do anything. This guy or gal did it all.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean, but it's all relative right.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, look, war is tough man, and nobody wants to be part of it. Nobody wants to see it, and I'd question those that say they are for war. Nobody should be for war. It's ridiculous. You know what I mean. But it's just been part of the beginning of time and it'll be here to the end of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I feel like that's a great answer. I feel like the Lord designs people specifically to be in those seats and I feel like there are people that are made to fight and there are people meant to be artists, there are people you know, it's like it's a whole gamut of what the Lord is calling you and designing you to do. But I've always wondered like it would always make me, because my dad served in the Navy in Vietnam and I just. It would always frustrate me when I don't know what, what, what. There's certain certain extreme christians think you should not fight at all. I can't remember what the term is um, but yeah pacifist and.
Speaker 2:I was just like how can you believe that you know?
Speaker 3:it like and look this, this is a debate to the end of time. But I just, I hear what you're saying and I think everybody handles it differently and, um no, I look, I wouldn't. I don't think it's not a natural thing to be part of Right Definitely difficult. But I agree with what you're saying about God has formed each of us differently to do certain things Like I was just talking about with this somebody. I meet some guys on Tuesday mornings for coffee and I'm just not handy man. You're an electrician, right. I mean, I can't do anything. Our sink in our kitchen is dripping, I probably, and I bought a new fixture to put in there. It's been sitting in our house for a week. Cause I'm too worried, I'm going to go in there and do it. It's not going to work or I'm going to be stuck with no water. Now I I do enough to be dangerous, but you know, but I'm not, I'm not that guy.
Speaker 3:But I'm really good at certain things and, um, unfortunately they happen to be associated with that other stuff you know, I mean like it's just weird, you know that's why, like we were talking earlier about the endurance races and stuff Like I just have this ability to keep going. Like when I was, I told you I ran the JFK 50. And I remember my wife, I went by myself and my parents used to live Like no crew, no, just me. Man. I went in with Holy cow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and with some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in my back pocket, I think. And you knew I was like David Goggins style. I'm telling you, man, I do it, but I trained, I knew what I was doing, kind of thing. I just you know. But you're right, they usually have these crews that meet you in certain places, give you certain things. I was like, nah, I'll just grab stuff off the race route, you know whatever.
Speaker 3:And I was by mile 36, I started falling apart. I was like eating M&Ms about me and I say this with humility, of course, but it's just kind of funny. That's why I'm saying is I was? She said I would die on the side of that trail before I quit. You know, like there were certain things and I had friends like that. Like I remember, um, when we were doing, when we were, when I first got accepted to the reconnaissance uh unit, um, you have to go through this thing called the reconnaissance indoctrination program, where they put you through this I'll just call it training and you do that for about six weeks before you go to the training.
Speaker 1:I'll just call it training.
Speaker 3:Kool-Aid drinking no it's no drinking Kool-Aid, you're drinking a lot of water just because you you to go to the reconnaissance school where you're going to become a reconnaissance. So like go into BUDS and go into it. It's like that's the school for the Marine, reconnaissance Marines Anyway, and we had this guy in there and it's a friend of mine who I didn't know him very well, but the same thing, like we're in the water. So what we do, you would you do physical training in the morning. You'd eat lunch, maybe sit in a class or two about like navigation or something, and then they take you to the pool or out into the ocean or into, like it's called, french Creek down there, like it's just like swamp, and they would just take you into the water and train you.
Speaker 3:But anyways, me and this other guy, johnny, we were just not very good swimmers. We're pretty big guys back then. So we just weren't great swimmers and I had never had a real history of swimming, um, but I remember he was, he and I were struggling in the water and we get out and this other buddy of mine's like now he'll drown before they let him pull him out. You know what I mean. Like not that he would like if you quit you're out, but like if, if they pull you out because you're drowning or you're passed out, like that's okay, they think that's kind of cool in a way. You know, at least back then they did.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I remember one time I was doing preschool, but like before they sent us dive school again, man I they called it air appreciation. I got home from that first day of training I was scared to go in the shower, man, I hugged my wife like I was, like I thought I was, but uh, so that's. I said, if you want another hour, just those stories.
Speaker 3:I got a million of them, man, it is uh and every recon marine if they're listening to this, or seal or anybody else who's done this stuff. They're all laughing right now going. Yeah, man, I know everybody. Everybody's got their little nicknames for different things. You know, like different hills, that you walked up misery and all this other stuff they used to go, just all this crazy stuff, sugar cooking, and you know it's terrible but um, you didn't get enough of that, so you got into ultra running yeah, so, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, the funny part was but I ran a uh like a memorial day 5k with a buddy of mine and in the marine corps three miles is like the minimum, like that's what we run for our physical fitness test and I was on the base newspaper. You didn't know it was me, but this woman pushing a stroller, uh. So it was on the base and they took a picture of this 5k and you could see my arm like this, but the woman like coming across the picture and the woman there's a woman in front of me. They were taking a picture of her. She was pushing a baby in a carriage and she beat me. So from that point on I'm like I will never I'll never let a woman yeah, I have never I've just never, I'm just gonna go full force.
Speaker 3:So then, what happened.
Speaker 1:There's always a woman in a stroller or a dad pushing his trailer yeah but he's always like your absolute butt in a
Speaker 3:race coming seven, seven miles or six. So what the reason? How I got into the though you'll dig this, this is kind of associated with it. So, um, in 05 or whatever it was where you know I was I got, uh, I got stuck back, uh, from a deployment. My wife was having our daughter and, um, they said, hey, you, you and another guy there was three of us actually who had babies like that same day we were deploying and they're like hey, we're going to count.
Speaker 3:They went to California to, like, do their prep, and then they were flying to Iraq and, um, they left me back in DC, me and his two other guys, and uh and I ended up not by the time it was time for us to fly over to California, they already left because it was so the fighting was so difficult. So they're like hey, if you want to stay here and be the officer in charge of this rear area until they need you and they'll pull you out. I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. So so at that point, you know they're.
Speaker 3:They're like, hey, there's no, what happened was there's still these military schools going on, but there's nobody to fill the seats? So they're like hey, you know, to continue your training. You can go to these schools, but just be aware that you know when you get out you're probably going to deploy and I'm like that's fine, you know, and what else am I doing? I'm sitting behind a computer doing nothing, you know. So they sent me to SEER school. So SEER school is S-E-R-E and again, military members listening understand this. It's survival, evasion, resistance. They teach you basically how to control yourself if you get captured.
Speaker 3:Wow and it's like three weeks or whatever it is down. They have a couple different ones for pilots and stuff. They have the special forces one and all that, and so I got back after whatever it was 15 days or 18 days and I'm 18 pounds lighter.
Speaker 2:Holy cow.
Speaker 3:And I was up in DC and the Baltimore Marathon was like six weeks away. And I'm like my buddy who was like into Ironmans and stuff like that, I call him and I'm like, hey, man, I'm like eight, I'm like under 180 pounds. Now, man, I'm going to go run this marathon. He goes no, you're not, you got six weeks, you know, or whatever it was. And I go come on, I just want to finish. And so that was the beginning of it, because of the military training ran it, I did.
Speaker 3:I ran the and I ran it in 421.
Speaker 2:Very proud of that because I didn't train, I mean, I think I ran.
Speaker 3:I ran like four days a week at 10, the exact time I trained like 10, 20 miles or 10, you know whatever it was, or however it equals up to 420, whatever it was I forget what it was yeah, but then I ended up getting really, and then after that I was like I could do that faster.
Speaker 2:You know, if I train, I could do it really good and then after that I was like I could do that faster. You know, if I train I can do it really good.
Speaker 3:And then he took me to a sprint triathlon in Maryland one time and I was like barfing, you know, and I remember I got beat. I'm talking about getting beat. There was a relay team made up of these elderly nuns. Their name was Ave Maria. I'll never forget this. And they beat me in the run. You're kidding? Yeah, I ended up barfing in some guy's driveway on the three mile run.
Speaker 3:It was a sprint triathlon and I just, you know, I didn't know you can't go as hard as you can and everything like I jumped into water and I went as hard as I can. I jumped on the bike, I went as hard as I could and then I got to the run and I was like two miles in and I'm like oh god, you watch these ultra marathons, these 100 milers, these 50 milers and stuff.
Speaker 1:There's always people in their 50s, 60s. There's little ladies in their late 60s and they have that mental strength. It's like your wife said You'll just die on the side before you give up. You have to have that Because it just breaks you down. If you're a human being running 50 miles somewhere in there, you're going to start hurting.
Speaker 3:No, 100% man, human being running 50 miles somewhere in there you're gonna start. No, 100 man, if you don't train. I mean, well, look, yeah, I mean you shouldn't run when you're training for those races. You know, I've read that you shouldn't run more than a certain amount of distance because, like it's doing a marathon every saturday or so, right, but I think there's two you're. You're right on the money and that's what's always intrigued me.
Speaker 3:I remember I went to this when I was at dive school in florida. Um, we went, they had had Ironman Florida and I didn't know what it was, but my buddy again, who was into this stuff, he brought me there and I'm seeing these people cross the finish line. They're like crying and I'm like what's wrong with these people? And then I realized, you know, like holy cow man, like they put their. And I'll never forget, when you know mentally, when I stepped up to the race line at the JFK 50 was that was training, for that was my recovery from my deployment and basically it was part of my post-traumatic, so to speak, or post-deployment mental, you know, recovery. And when I got up to that start line, like I was emotional man, like you know, and uh, anyway.
Speaker 3:So I think there's the types of people who they want to accomplish something they never may have in life. You know, or they I don't know those people and you see those are like your middle-aged, 40, 50-year-old dudes. And then you see the other people, like you're saying, the elderly people. I think those are people who got into it later in life or, like me, did it and then took a break and then came back because their kids grew up and they have time now. But then there's guys like me who are just beat up from, like our military service, and then you do that stuff stuff, and then you, just after a while, you got to be like you know enough snuff you know.
Speaker 1:So now I just work out so I can eat, you know, and try to maintain a healthy weight, you know, but uh, well, but you tested yourself, you've done it and how much is enough I well right, I mean, I think that also like I would say, like if you've never done it, you got to try it, you got to hit your limit right, I think?
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot of men that that don't ever pursue something. That just is. They're likely to fail. Right like? I agree with that. I think I was that. I know that's true because that was me for a while. Is that right? Right yeah, I mean. But there's something really powerful about going into something that has a pretty high failure rate and either failing or succeeding it doesn't really matter. Like you figure it out, you figure out where your limit is. There's there's value, see you could have.
Speaker 3:You couldn't have articulated any better from what I was saying earlier about why I did certain things in the military, like, okay, I want to be marine, but no, I want to do this now, right, but there was no option of failure. Like I want to do it to push myself and test myself, and I should be able to do that, and that's what led me to the like you're saying. Exactly what you're talking about is what I'm saying is then you get into these endurance races and you're like, okay, um, let's run a marathon. I ran a marathon. Well, what's next? You know? Like, let's just keep going. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:50 miles yeah, I'm in on that. Let's do a sprint triathlon. Now. What's next? Olympic? Yeah, cool, half iron, let's do a full, you know. And then there's this other guy I know, bob, he did, they call I forget what they call him like it's like back-to-back ironmans. Like you do, like to swim is like a 2.1 mile swim. You do like four mile swim one day, then the next day, instead of doing the 112 mile bike, you do like a 250 mile bike and then the next day, instead of running a marathon, you do a 50 miler Like then what you know?
Speaker 3:you're running across the Sahara, you know, like I, so I hear you, man, I agree with you and I think it's important for men and women and anybody else to do these things, because a lot of time. But then again you have people who, like I, was talking about my wife. She's fantastic woman. She just does not very competitive in that regard, like she doesn't ever want to see that you know and and for me.
Speaker 1:I don't understand that. How could you not? You know I love the way you said that.
Speaker 3:But it's just, it's way unwired. You know, we talk about it all the time like how can? And it's funny because, like my younger son, he's a pretty, he was an athlete, competitive kid. But like, yeah, you know, he's more like her in a way, when my daughter, you know, she's so super competitive that it actually gets to a fact where it builds anxiety in her life, you know, sometimes. And so that's the other thing too, you know, like there's just this fine balance for all these things.
Speaker 3:But I love what you just said because I think that you're right, it's always bringing yourself to those limits and seeing how much further you can go. So it's even like the people who just want a promotion in life. You know, and I don't know if I should go interview for that job, what happens if I don't get it? Well, who cares, go try it, learn something. Maybe if you don't get it, you can turn around and you know say, okay, what did I do wrong? And maybe that's not for me. You know, I'd rather just be in this position here and that's fine.
Speaker 3:No one says you have to do certain things and that's that person's testimony. Then moving forward, right, you see a lot of those folks in, you know the military, or in these races or athletes, where they come off their career and they go. What was I doing? You know even actors. I read, you know, an article about denzel washington recently that became a believer later in life, you know, I mean the guy's got everything you want right, you would think anyway, sorry man, I like I said, I can go on forever with this stuff.
Speaker 2:No, that's good, Matt Cianciarelli, this has been awesome.
Speaker 3:I hope it was what you guys wanted, man, it was good times.
Speaker 2:It was exactly what we wanted.
Speaker 1:We wanted a good conversation. I told you that.
Speaker 3:Well, look, I just hope that you know there that can relate to what I was talking about. I'm kind of lying to you because we're all on our own. We're going to walk it. Thanks for having me, guys. Really I'd love to do it again sometime if you guys want to get in more detail about the funny stuff.
Speaker 1:All right thanks man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you, all right, you, thank you.
