The Uncommon Path
"The Uncommon Path" is a podcast that intimately explores the transformative journeys of individuals, featuring raw and unfiltered testimonies that celebrate the resilience, growth, and shared human experiences, offering listeners a source of inspiration and connection on their own life paths. Join us as we unveil the extraordinary stories that shape who we are.
The Uncommon Path
RERUN - Carly Mayo - From Ghost-Hunting Shows to Spiritual Insights: Embracing Faith, Therapy, and Heartfelt Humor
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This episode reveals the powerful interplay between trauma, faith, and healing through the experiences of Carly Mayo, a trauma therapist. We explore themes like the value of normalcy, the importance of truth in healing, and the impact of fatherlessness, emphasizing how our backgrounds shape our journeys and relationships.
• Carly shares her upbringing in a stable Christian household
• Discussion on experiences at youth camp and how they shaped faith
• The concept of normalcy as a foundation for resilience
• Insights on dissociative disorders and trauma therapy
• The integration of faith in therapeutic sessions
• The significance of uncovering and confronting lies
• Exploring the prevalence of fatherlessness among clients
• Encouraging listeners to embrace their stories, no matter how ordinary
oh, we are oh we are at warren speaking of warren, our producer. Warren, we miss you can't wait to see you again.
Speaker 3You are in new burn rip oh, he's new burn yeah our guest came and said where's Warren, and I said, oh, it looks like Warren didn't communicate to everyone that he wouldn't be here.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, we're trying to get him to replace our front door and I can barely get him to communicate about that, wow.
Speaker 3That's interesting, Warren. Warren, I want that in the podcast, Can't wait to hear you.
Speaker 4You definitely had to make that specific because he would edit that period.
Speaker 3Can't wait to see you edit that warren. Oh man, carly, carly, mayo, the one and only here I am gosh, what a treat hey love getting to hang out with you, it's you. It's far and few between hangouts these days, I know, especially since y'all moved to uh, you know, just a different area of town.
Speaker 4A different area of town. It's okay.
Speaker 3These aren't tears, these are just.
Speaker 2Allergies, allergies.
Speaker 3I honestly kind of wish they were tears word here I'm going to let you introduce yourself kind of what you do, the podcast is named.
Speaker 3The Uncommon Path. The Uncommon Path because it is basically just trying to take like an hour, hour and a half to hear about your story, what your path with the Lord looks like. Um, I love hearing how people's relationship is with the Lord, cause it's always so unique. Um would love to hear, like, what that looked like growing up when it first started. Was that like kind of a gradual thing of owning your own faith, or was it a split moment where the Lord changed everything? And then like what the Lord is doing right now on your path, um, with him and how he meets you there, um, and then kind of where you see yourself in the future going like big picture. What's Carly Mayo's? How's Carly?
Speaker 3Mayo going to save the world. You know, with the Lord, you know with the Lord, thank you.
Speaker 4Can't wait to see that you can't do it on your own. No, you got to have Jesus. Yeah, wwjd, what would Jesus do?
Speaker 3So go ahead and introduce yourself. Let me, just before we go there real quick, let me just have a couple other things I forgot to add. Okay.
Speaker 3We might write some stuff down. That's just us kind of hearing things from the Lord, maybe to ask you next. The whole time Chris and I do this, we want to try to be sensitive in what the Lord's wanting to do and where we want to go with it. But more than anything, this is kind of your time to share what you want to share. Anything can be edited out. This also is a place for you to feel free to let it rip, like if you need to use some language that isn't safe around a church setting between 1030 and 12,.
Speaker 4well, this is an okay, okay place, okay can I have warren edit in like a bleep you, you sure, could you sure, instead of you know, instead of hell it goes heaven and just like just kind of layers it over anytime I accidentally cuss, well, it'll be dubbed over, but it won't be your voice jesus yeah we hired james earl j Jones to sample a few words.
Speaker 2So if we have to, you know, cover over. Yeah, you're like what the it'll just be like what the pumpkin spice latte? It's seasonal themed, seasonal themed.
Speaker 4Yeah, it's the fall, and in in, in. This podcast is brought to you by Starbucks. Don't get your ad revenue. Okay, it's the fall, and this podcast is brought to you by Starbucks, don't get me wrong your ad revenue.
Speaker 3Oh gosh.
Speaker 4It's good you want me to start with just the bio, maybe bring the mic a little closer to you.
Speaker 3If you can. And then, yeah, you picking me up, we're picking up something. Go ahead, say it one more time. Okay, all right, I see a little green bar. There it is.
Speaker 4Like ghost adventures. We're picking up something. They're in the room with us. Chris did you hear that, chris? Did you hear that? Did this ghost really say it was talking to my mom? That was a ghost adventure thing I saw on TikTok where it was like who were you talking to?
Speaker 4And then it picked up, it said your mom, and he goes did this ghost just say that it is it taunting me saying that it was talking to my mom? That's hilarious, I love. I don't watch ghost avengers, but I just like watching clips from it.
Speaker 2Anyways, I feel like I'd be friends with that ghost already. Yeah, your mom, your mom, this ghost, this ghost just taught me, like I just kind, just kind of hang out with that, yeah you're like that's actually kind of fire, bro, like let's hang out exactly like I'm gonna stop trying to hunt you for one second um let's just chill, uh, anyways um dm me ghost dm me ghost.
Speaker 4You start getting into your mom. Battle with a ghost. We found this, this ghost, in room 40. Um, no, we're not gonna go there anyways. This ghost is the ultimate troll. What's your name? Ligma?
Speaker 2no, you know that if you are a ghost, this is totally not on topic for a podcast. But if you're a ghost, you're just waiting for the ghost people to come. You're like they're here. You're like oh, thank you god, thank god, these morons are here let's just, you know, let's hit it, fudge with these dudes for a while dude, oh, my god oh my gosh, or edit out the word fudge Fudge, or James Earl Jones Fudge. No.
Speaker 4Yeah, we love Jesus and don't watch ghost shows, oh my goodness, I should have put that out there. My dad did, but I didn't. No, so yeah, where do you want me to start again A bio?
Speaker 3Yeah Bio, Okay Bio A quick bio. What do you do? Um?
Speaker 4yeah, um, so I you know like where am I from?
Speaker 4Um, I am a born and bred Texan, east Texan, um. I grew up in East Texas, um, um, and I left as fast as I could, love it so much but also didn't want to live there. Um, and let me start with who I am now. I'm a therapist, um. I'm a trauma therapist, um. I treat, uh, trauma and dissociative disorders, um, and I'm married to ben mayo, like you said, the world's happiest drummer, as I like to call him, cause he always smiles when he's drumming. So you should look at him, chris, um, next time he's on stage.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's distracting from worship. How happy he is. It, is it?
Speaker 4is. You get lost in his joy, in the Lord. But what about my joy? Am I riding Ben's high right now? And then you get existential.
Speaker 3And then we're going to go outside and see if what I'm feeling is real. Do I need to?
Speaker 4analyze this. No, that's fine, it's totally okay. Um, but yeah, I grew up in East Texas with my mom, my dad, my younger sister, my younger brother. Um, I grew up in a Christian household.
Speaker 3Um sister and my younger brother um. I grew up in a christian household, um like traditional mindset, or like like baptist or no I grew up in the assemblies of god so that is a little
Speaker 4charismatic. It's basically pentecostal, but I could wear pants and dance, um, wow, and watch movies, um, but a lot of the same tenants, pretty much. Um, really strong emphasis on the gifts of the spirit, on healing Sorry, let me, let me flip it and reverse that. Really strong, infinite emphasis on speaking in tongues. Um, and I grew you know, that was kind of what I grew up in was a kind of a ghostier church. My parents were both Christians. My dad, they became Christians. I feel like this is a story that a lot of parents go through. They really aren't following the Lord, they're Christians, and then they have kids and something about raising children bring you to the Lord, which is like kind of fun. Yeah, you have five boys and you're like I get saved every single day, god help me, god, and that's how it starts.
Speaker 4Yeah, you cry out unto the Lord and he, he comes and you're like, oh, I knew it. Are you real? Are you still there? Are you still?
Speaker 4there and it's like, which is funny, because my dad had a spirit, you know, spiritual experiences prior to having kids, like you know, living in a house that used to be owned by like a, a black witch, you know, and and having these crazy demonic experiences, um, and and you know, having these near Um, and then I think it's just kind of funny that having kids is what brought him closer to the, to the Lord.
Speaker 4So maybe that says something about us, um, but, and my mom kind of grew up Methodist, you know, she was just a little Methodist girl in the woods of East Texas Um, so, but we, I guess the, the middle ground for that was assemblies of God, because my dad was like, I've seen stuff, I've been saved, I've been delivered on a very strong Holy spirit level and I want to be in a place where that's great, that's cool and where that's where that's something that people believe in and, you know, operate in. So I grew up in the assemblies of God. Um, I really wasn't. I would, I would say that I was a good Christian church kid, maybe. But I.
Youth Camp Experience and Testimonies
Speaker 4I would say that I didn't really come into a saving faith until youth camp. I want to tell you something about assemblies of God, youth camps. First night get to know youth camps. First night get to know each other. Second night hype night. Third night Holy spirit night, always Holy spirit night.
Speaker 2Wow what was the second night again.
Speaker 4Just kind of like pump up, like woo. Yeah, hype night, you know like hype night, hype night.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 4Pause for Warren. So hype night, hype night, yeah, pause for warren. So there's like a format to that yeah, it's a format, it's like systematic systematic. Okay, the third night is always holy spirit night, and what they meant by holy spirit night was how can we get these kids to speak in tongues?
Speaker 3that was the goal.
Speaker 4It was a goal because because one of the the tenants of the assemblies of God church, um, at least as as I understood it, and it was in the doctrine from my church was the. The evidence of salvation is tongues, like if you are truly saved, you'll speak in tongues. Evidence of salvation, the evidence of the evidence of baptism and the spirit.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 4Let's put it that way yeah, actually it's probably a better way to say you can have kind of faith, but you don't have the holy spirit inside of you until you speak in tongues wow is kind of the idea. So there's some interesting theology going on there. For you know, my, my mom and my dad, who had never spoken in tongues before, but it made it very important for them on holy Spirit night at youth camp and um so how did this night go for you?
Speaker 4It went like every every early to mid two thousands young youth gathering. When I was listening, to Holly's Holly's podcast on the way here, holly Barton and she brought brought up a choir, the fire, and I was like I know exactly what she's talking about. I know exactly what she's talking about. Um, kind of, what happened that night was very powerful emotional worship, um, an altar call and maybe an hour's worth of just intercession, intercession, intercession. Kids getting prayed for, kids wanting to, to get the gift of tongues.
Speaker 4It was like for an hour at the same time, there were also kids like getting delivered of demons and you know things like that were also kind of like a big room of of chaos.
Speaker 3Like legitimately yeah. Wow.
Speaker 4Like yeah, and so it was kind of like a big room of chaos with pockets of you doing your own thing. So I was off doing my own thing and I remember I just kind of had this pervasive sense of emptiness at that age, like it just felt empty.
Speaker 4It just I don't know how to describe it, how old were you again 12 okay, 12 to 13, I think I think it was 12 because it was a very big youth camp for me, ryan, because not only did I get saved and speak in tongues, but I also have my first period so there was a lot going on.
Speaker 3There was a lot going on, a lot of heightened emotions heightened emotions learning curve learning about myself. Maybe the tongue thing actually started that. Yeah, you know yeah, actually it.
Speaker 4I, the lord, said not only are you going to become a follower of christ, but I've chosen today for you to become a woman, and there it is, there you go and there it is.
Speaker 3I mean that's kind of funny, but kind of cool. Yeah, you know it was.
Speaker 4There's a lot going on, but, um, I just remember standing there, worship, music's going and having my hands out in front of me and just praying and being like, okay, jesus, I just feel really empty. Like I just feel really empty. I don't. I've been doing this Jesus thing for a little bit, but I don't really it's not mine. Kind of like what you, what you asked earlier, was it something you had to own for me? Yes, it was, and I want to know more of you. However that looks, I remember feeling like someone put their hand in my hand and there was no one in front of me. Wow and.
Speaker 4I was like, oh my gosh, jesus, you know Jesus. And I just opened my mouth and just started speaking in tongues. There was no one in front of me, wow. And I was like, oh my gosh, jesus, you know jesus.
Speaker 4And I just opened my mouth and just started speaking in tongues and I was like no way this is happening right now holy cow, that's incredible I just remember feeling that sense of emptiness just dissipate and I it's kind of funny because sometimes I'll reflect back on that like I'll, I'll kind of forget what it felt like before I asked Jesus to come into my life. And it makes me really sad because I remember, with that I kind of reengaged with that empty feeling and I'm like, oh, that sucked, like it was awful. I mean, I was young, you know, I was 12. And sometimes I kind of dog myself for that. I'm like I didn't have a cool testimony, I wasn't delivered from drugs, you know, or you know I don't know if you've grown up in the church, I feel like some, some of
Speaker 4those uh sheltered kids are like. I wish I was like on the street and in the on drugs too bad. I wasn't tortured too bad, I wasn't tortured when.
Speaker 2I ran.
Speaker 4Too bad, I wasn't traumatized.
Speaker 2That actually was well Marianna's podcast. Yeah, she did a deep dive on that, Like it was. Yeah, I mean we can listen to that podcast, but yeah, that kids that grow up in church, like that's a thing, it's very, very similar, it's glorified, Like it's especially in the early to mid 2000s.
Speaker 4I feel like not only were we all wading through purity culture on some level, like the, the kind of back end of purity culture, but we're also um in that kind of grungy, you know skillet yeah, this boy you know like I was I
Speaker 3was I was.
Speaker 4DC talk. I was a dirty little, dirty little, dirty little grungy guy. And. Jesus came and delivered me from my like. You know, like the, the, the DC talk, uh, the book they had about martyrs. You know, it was really big to talk about martyrs and stuff like that in the in in the American church.
Speaker 4Um, so I definitely, in my own heart, was really glorifying, kind of probably what Marianna talked about, that idea of I needed that like really grungy testimony. You know, to glorify the Lord, not to like glorify myself. Actually, let's be honest, I wanted a good story but you know know, I was 12. I I asked, I wanted to experience more of the lord, I wanted to know him for myself, and he responded praise god, you know that's like lord honestly like that's the best story yeah is that you just grow up in a healthy family and like meet the lord on your own at an age where you have the shoulders to carry that.
Speaker 2Like to me, because I don't. It's funny that your testimony and Mariana was kind of the same. Like grew up in church, kind of doubted the glory or whatever of your testimony because it wasn't some radical thing. I grew up in a home that didn't have Christian parents, like atheists.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I felt like the same, like I actually had a pretty looking back. I'm like, oh, I have actually a pretty cool testimony, like the Lord like plucked me out of this home that I was not on a trajectory to ever even know him, yeah, but I felt like, oh, I don't have a cool testimony. Yeah.
Speaker 2And I felt like an outsider, because all the other Christian kids were like, they all were like oh, like Christian camp, we all do this and I like I don't know these, I don't know these songs, I don't know this stuff, and so it's probably universal.
Speaker 4Yeah that we all are kind of like.
Speaker 2I don't know about my testimony yeah, I mean it's, it's.
Speaker 4I can resonate yeah, no yeah, I can. I can resonate with that do you care to?
Speaker 2share right, just gonna say it. Oh, I, I know all about that, are you gonna?
Speaker 4echo. Are you? Is this an unspoken? Are you gonna echo chris?
Speaker 3dude I? I. For the longest time I felt like my testimony was trash like I didn't even want to talk about it because I was just like nothing big happened. But then I look back and I'm like actually a lot of supernatural stuff happened that I can't explain. I don't know why I discredited it.
Speaker 4I feel like I was thinking about this the other day because you know you share your testimony, sometimes in life group or with people. You know they ask what's your testimony? How did you come to know jesus and I? I came to realize that a lot of my testimony doesn't lie in that conversion moment.
Speaker 4It lies in the like how he continually saves my butt as a christian now you know, I'm like, yeah, this was a great moment, but let us not lie to ourselves, it wasn't. I was bad. And then, yeah, that is true. Like he saved me. This is fantastic, but there's the. It's gonna sound weird. The meat, the meatiest parts of my testimony are still yet to come.
Speaker 3Hey, I think, ah, man, I love that. I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 2Still yet to come as you get older or like age oh okay, I was like don't hold back the meat, tell us now. Tell us now.
The Gift of Normalcy
Speaker 4No, I just I, as, as I, as I age, um, I got you. I. I think that, with the job I have and the specialty I have, um, some of my wildest stories and experiences are the ones that are happening now, not the ones that happened to me before I knew the Lord, or or, you know, when I was a teenager or you know my younger twenties, um, which is kind of ironic, and it reminds me of what you said about having a normal testimony.
Speaker 4I always craved that you know crazy testimony like we were talking about. But now I'm in a job to where the most important thing for me to be is to be the most normal person in the room for my clients, because they need normalcy, they need someone who's normal, they need consistency. So I think it's kind of ironic how I wanted these cool things quote, unquote cool to be cool or have a cool testimony, or to have a cool story, being called to be and really live and cherish normalcy and see it as a gift instead of a you know as a knock that I, you know, grew up in a normal household.
Speaker 2Does that make sense? Yeah, that's an awesome perspective. It is, you know, because I think even as adults, you're like, oh, like we crave, you know, the one-off experience, the adventure, the accolades, the rockstar kind of experience, and we can even like, shape our social media kind of front to look, to make us look like, oh, here's our highlights of all this stuff. But there's so much value in the day-to-day, the ordinary, the normalcy. Yeah.
Speaker 4If I've learned anything. I'm kind of skipping around, so I apologize.
Speaker 3No, no, this is good, but if I've learned anything in the'm kind of skipping around, so I apologize.
Speaker 4No, no, this is good, but if I've learned anything in the small, the little, minuscule time I've been practicing as a therapist and as a trauma therapist for people especially who have experienced developmental traumas, traumas in childhood that really shape who they are as an adult and shape the way that they interact as adults in the world. As an adult, and shape the way that they interact as adults in the world, normalcy is probably one of the biggest gifts you could give your children.
Speaker 4I'm not a parent yet and there's a lot of other gifts you can give your children that are amazing. There's adventure in the Lord, there's, you know, a lot of.
Speaker 4You know risks, maybe that as a family you're called to, but one of the biggest gifts you can give your kids is normalcy and consistency, and I think that they probably talk about that a lot in parenting stuff and parenting books, but on the other side of it, as someone who who does only treat adults, um, that was like a huge thing. That was missing for a lot of my clients was normalcy, safety, a home that they could come to. That wasn't actually the source of most of the issues that they were experiencing at that time.
Speaker 2So yeah, wow, and it seems like just live. I'm not in that arena at all but living life long enough, I've seen kids that are in situations that are, you know, hard. They find themselves gravitating towards the normal family. Oh yeah, they're like. Oh, I was over at you know you hear people with traumatic upbringings. They're like I would just spend as much time as I could at Billy's house because billy had a mom and dad and, just like, did normal stuff and played baseball in the street yeah and ate dinner every night together.
Speaker 2It was like I loved being there because that's stability or whatever.
Speaker 4Yeah, they love that usually becomes their de facto parents or their adopted parents. I mean, it's, it is true and that's like and now we're talking, now this is a parenting podcast.
Speaker 4But it is true, it's true that you know and that's kind of where I am right now is like the brilliant transformative power of quote unquote normalcy. And normalcy not as in status quo, but as in, like the good and the rich, and the day-to-day things that, like the lord has called us to, are the things that people crave, like people who don't have that crave it. And I, I think I've just been challenging myself to not become complacent in these things, because they are, they're just so important, they're so nourishing for our brains, our bodies, our emotions, everything we're spiritualized. So that's a little tangent.
Speaker 2No, I love that Rabbit trail here.
Speaker 3Yeah, my. My grandfather always used to say that the best rabbit trail leads to the juiciest carrot.
Speaker 2She, she's heard it already, hey I listened to the podcast. She's a follower. Hey, I listen to the podcast. She's a follower, I'm a follower.
Speaker 4I listen to the podcast.
Speaker 3Wow, I'm like You're famous. Oh man, I'm really.
Speaker 4You're famous Right here In my heart, ryan. You're famous in my heart. Honestly, you really are.
Speaker 3Thank you. Thank you Appreciate it.
Speaker 4You're one of the funniest people like it. I give you a hard time because you that is your humor and yet I love how, when I die, it can turn into like the most spiritual. I'm crying, ryan Medlin's giving me a word from the Lord, like moment, and I'm like I love that. I love that I live for that dichotomy of like having friendships where you could play both sides of the coin and you don't you both sides of the coin and you don't, you know it's one or the other.
Speaker 3I like, I like that, it's both. Thank you, I do, I I love. I would say yeah, I would say I love that about y'all too. I like the closest people to me and Leslie are the people that can do that because we are equally as deep as we are. Just like funny Leslie's not as funny as me because she's smarter.
Speaker 4You got it. You win, some, you lose some.
Speaker 3Yeah, you win some, you lose some. I mean have to have a deficit somewhere. You know, um, I I really love hey, thank you, I receive those words I've been working on receiving. It's hard to receive sometimes. I appreciate it. Yeah, you also have held a deep spot in our hearts as well, you and Ben both.
Speaker 4Thanks, man yeah right there. No, I just, I had some indigestion. Oh cool yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, same. Um, I wanted to ask you how does the Lord meet you in what you do? And I know that can go down a million different areas, but I find it fascinating that you're counseling. Or is it like the Lord gives you a download for what to expect and like, how to act or like, or, or is it different? Like what does that look like? That's a good question?
Speaker 4hmm, I would say I would say it depends on the session. Um I something you probably don't know about me, chrisris. Is that, um? Do you go by chris or christopher? He goes by christian, christian the christian flower?
Speaker 4no, no, it's chris chris, okay, I don't want to, I don't want to mess up. Um, I always do that. Whenever, especially when you're praying for someone and you've never met them and they're like hi, my name is blah, blah, blah, they tell you the thing they want prayer for and you're like like all right, we're going to pray and I always go remind me of your name one more time. I do that too they go.
Speaker 4they're like blah blah. I'm like thank you, because I'm afraid I'm going to be in the middle of the prayer. Is this what you do?
Speaker 2Or you're like Lord, we pray for this, he bless them. Bless them, god. I forget their name, like every time. I know, I'm just so glad to hear you say that because one time, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I will bring you back. I will bring you back. But I have to share this. I was like on our friend text thread somebody's mom was like sick or something and he's like, hey, please pray for my mom, and I was like what's her name? Yeah, and some other knucklehead, smart ass wonder who it is friend of mine, who will not be named, was.
Speaker 2I don't even remember who it was actually it was just like yeah, you can just say John's mom, like when you pray, and I'm like, well, yeah, but but what's your actual? Yeah, but like I want, I don't know.
Speaker 4It feels like I need to know their name. I feel like people are protective of their mom's name, sometimes too, because they're like what are you going to do with that information? Yeah, bless her by praying. You're like blessed by praying. Other people's answers would be like, you know, like steal her security check like steal money from her.
Speaker 2No.
Speaker 3I'm going to use her name specifically for all the mom jokes I draw yeah.
Speaker 4I need it for all the mom jokes. I'm a prince in Nigeria and I was praying for you and I need money Praying for you. Okay, sorry, $5,000 a prayer.
Speaker 2You're saying something I don't know about you. And then I tangented. I tangented Further.
Speaker 4Further know about you, and then, and then I, I tangented, I tangented further, further, anyways, um, but I, I'm a therapist, I'm a trauma therapist and I specialize in dissociative disorders um, that is.
Speaker 3What is that again dissociative?
Speaker 4disorders. Are you gonna be like a therapist? Um no uh, dissociative disorders. Um, the way I kind of layman's terms dissociative disorders is is almost always, if not always, a something that accompanies extreme duress or trauma, and it is basically the brain's way of helping you escape whenever physical escape is not possible okay, um, your mind mentally blocks that out it blocks it, it takes you away.
Speaker 4You know it's, it's a, it's a dynamic range really of of how severe it could be. From highway hypnosis we we've all driven somewhere, been deep in thought, and then we get there and we're like how did I, how did I get here? I don't remember actively being. I'm turning left, I'm turning right, I'm turning right, I'm doing this. Your brain just kind of cuts out the information because it's like no, not important right now. Um, to daydreaming. You know people daydream, sometimes you've got kids, or you know it's called maladaptive daydreaming, which means that it's daydreaming that's interfering with your day-to-day life. Um, all the way down to dissociative identity disorder, which is also used to be called multiple personality disorder. Now, that one is one of my specialties, which I love saying and also hate saying in Christian environments, because the usual response is like oh, demons, I'm like no Demons, no oh you mean like.
Speaker 3You mean like demons.
Speaker 4Right, I'm like no demons, no, oh, you mean like you mean like demons, right, I'm like no, no, um, but basically that is to where your brain has had to do that dissociation for so long that it created a lot more walls in your brain than we normally have and your brain it's I I see it as like a really a gift in a fallen world, honestly to help kids, because you can only develop it when you're a child um specifically between ages zero to nine, um a gift in a fallen world um to help kids escape and survive um situations that they can't physically escape.
Speaker 4So, um, I guess that makes more sense sometimes, when I say I need to be the normal person in the room is because, and why normalcy is important because, life is chaotic when you're living on that extent of trauma. So, ryan, what was the original question you asked me?
Speaker 3Original question was how does the Lord speak to you?
Speaker 4in those sessions.
Speaker 3Does he give you? A download for the person and if you don't, yeah.
Speaker 4Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3You don't have an answer.
Speaker 4You're like actually the Lord doesn't speak to me in sessions Actually.
Speaker 3I don't bring him in there. I need normalcy in this show.
Speaker 4He's just out, he's gone no, um, I work for an integrated christian counseling practice and so we're christians, um, and we do clinical care and we integrate clinical like, we integrate our, our walk with jesus and our clients walk with jesus into that care. Um, some people come to us knowing that we're we're integrated but they're not christians and we're like cool, you knew what you were coming into, fine, but we have a lot of people that come to us who are like I need evidence-based practice and I also need to walk through what I'm going through with a believer. So that's that's kind of the place I work at. So Jesus does come in with a lot of my clients and it's actually I like I kind of have been thinking to myself and formulating I'm a very internal processor, so I don't typically talk about stuff until I've got a good grid for it in my own heart and then I'll start talking about it.
Speaker 4So when I'm asked to externally process, it's kind of rough sometimes. So I'll give it a shot. Um, I think that it's really interesting from my own story, going from a, you know, shoot at the hip wild ag church, you know, with demons getting cast out and everything's a demon.
Speaker 4Like my sister and I, slept in my mom and dad's bedroom for months whenever we found out about the demonic, because we were like 100, like they're gonna get us, the demons are gonna get us, they're gonna get us. Um, I ended up. We ended up moving past that, but going from that, we still don't sleep with her.
Speaker 4We still actually do sleep. We make a pallet on the floor. Um, no, it's. You know how kids do whenever like they want to sleep in your room but like they don't want to wake you up because you you would tell them to go back to bed and they just quietly come in like put a blanket oh, dude, I totally did that.
Speaker 4That was my last night, yeah, I did that last night and you're like as the parent or the kid my kid okay, came in and then you wake up and you're like, you're like, what are you doing in here?
Speaker 2I made a pile on the floor. He slept on it for like 30 minutes, then he went back to his own bed. There you go. Man defeats the whole purpose you woke me up for this.
Speaker 4Come on, what the heck um dude, that's hilarious, but you know, go go from that to being in a space with people. That is really misunderstood, um, with with diagnoses that are really misunderstood for people, and we could get into you know, that's probably a different podcast about the interplay of the spiritual and mental health diagnoses. That's another conversation. Oh, that's like a whole other thing, that's another conversation.
Speaker 4I'm like the way I kind of approach it and it's evolving as it has to, as I'm learning more. I'm still very new If we have this podcast five years from now. I'm still very new If we have this podcast five years from now, check in with me. But I'm like you know where the enemy has keys to doors, you know, and opens and shuts them in people's brains and stuff is kind of how I work through it. Warren cut that if that made no sense. But I go from this place where everything is demons basically is how I grew up, is it's all demons to this place with people who are really misunderstood, really hurting, and I feel the Lord inviting me into a space that not a lot of Christians at this point in time really get invited into, with people dealing with these kinds of things. Oh yeah, and it has been powerful, powerful.
Speaker 2Wow, Like it's.
Speaker 4I'm kind of I'm not bummed that everything is HIPAA protected, but in some ways I am Just places where I've had a client, you know, and they're dealing with stuff and we ask the Lord to move on their behalf in session and the rapidity of healing and the unique methods and methodology the lord can use it like always blows my mind oh, I'm like I'm like you know, and I couldn't have done it better myself, like, like you know and you knew, you knew what to do.
Speaker 4Lord um, like. It's truly like I. I happened today. I I had a client today and I was like brought to tears literally brought to tears by where you know. I was like the Lord is a healer and this is. You know he talks about. He's like, yeah, you saw me heal this guy. You're like, oh my God, but what about healing people's hearts? You?
Speaker 2know like, and that's a greater miracle.
Speaker 4You know, and I'm like, oh, I, I see that I get that on a level that I've never got before as someone growing up in a you know faith, healing that kind of thing where we're praying for like these physical miracles for people and kind of having a weird relationship with that. You know, as someone who's you know, I was like, okay, we're called to like pray for healing and I'm like be healed but it's fine if you're not Be healed, but that's okay. Did your leg grow out? And having a journey with that and even in my own personal healing as someone who has physical ailments and illnesses that are chronic and long-term, lord has not directly addressed my questions about that, but has instead opened my eyes to that heart healing that that mental healing that I feel like in a weird way, is actually healing my relationship with physical healing, um, in a way and I don't really know what that way is yet, but I I feel it like physical feeling.
Speaker 3What?
Speaker 4do physical healing. What do you mean? Like praying for physical healing?
Speaker 2Okay, so, like the way you're being enlightened by the Lord, to approach deep mental, emotional and spiritual healing in yourself and others is kind of shaping now the way you think about the physical and supernatural world.
Speaker 4Chris, you're a great podcast. Yes, yes, yes, that is what I'm saying. Okay.
Speaker 2Love it.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Navigating Faith and Mental Health
Speaker 2I mean, that's the. I mean spiritual healing. I got my first taste of that this year going through RTF. I mean, obviously I've tasted that like the Lord's done a ton.
Speaker 3But for more. Look guys, Chris is a Christian, okay.
Speaker 2He's giving his life to the Lord. My name is not Christian, it's Chris, no, but it's super important and I feel like there's this faith element too when you're praying for well, really anything. But we're praying for some physical stuff for Andrea, injuries and things like that and there's like a you think about where's my faith level at, yeah, and I feel like when you have some deep spiritual stuff, kind of get unlocked and and some splinters pulled out and infections can heal up at the spiritual level that affects your faith yeah right, and so the faith, the water level of faith rises and then you can see more and more.
Speaker 4Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think I'm not the point, but I can see myself getting to the point soon, of kind of feeling like, hey, I was just in a session where I watched the Lord undo a multi-generational trauma that has affected this client since birth. Uh, yeah, I can pray for your arm to to be knit back together Totally. That's totally doable, because this, this was difficult.
Speaker 4This was this took this person's 50, 60 and this healing just came onto them and untied so many bonds and so many things that were connected to it for them, you know, and the lord just healed it in a moment. Yeah, totally, we can, we can. He'll knit your arm back together. That's easy, sure done. You know, it's kind of yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now, that's so cool yeah, do you ever feel like in your in these sessions?
Speaker 2That's kind of where I'm at right now. It's been really healing. That's so cool. Yeah, do you ever feel like in your in these sessions, because you kind of gave the dichotomy of came from this world of demons, everything's a demon. I came from this world. Yeah, like I have a cold, well, cast out the demon of the cold. Yeah, or you know.
Speaker 4Get that demon out of your sinuses.
Speaker 2Demon of ankle sprain be gone.
Speaker 4Yeah, get out of there. Well, I just rolled my ankle, but I get it. I'm just playing with the.
Speaker 2You know that way of thinking or whatever. But then now you become a mental health practitioner expert. But then there's the reality that demons are real, yeah, and they do affect people. So I'm sure there's like this gray space that you have to have. That you're like walking around in this gray area like professionally all the time.
Speaker 4Right, what is that? Like my sweet, sweet friendiana, um brought up the. I hope I get the the saying right, um, you can't. Uh, whoa, maybe you'll know uh, you can't deliver personality and you can't counsel demons. You ever heard that I? I?
Speaker 2like it. I haven't heard it. I like it, I really like that.
Speaker 4Said you can't deliver, because I was trying to explain to her my job with working with dissociative identity disorders and she, in her very Marian, marian away goes. Hey, can't deliver personalities, can't counsel demons, sounds like.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's like wow, that's exactly it it's pretty much it.
Speaker 4Good job wild. Yeah, um, it's been interesting because it has challenged me on my personal beliefs about that stuff. I tend to want to have everything figured out. I really do. I would love to have everything figured out and then go ahead, but that is just not the nature of therapy. It it's just not the nature of life.
Speaker 2It seems like you picked the wrong career there.
Speaker 4I would not, yeah, no, it's just not going to work. It's just not going to work.
Speaker 2I always make every day. You're going to open up this box and be like let's see what's inside this box. No idea, no idea.
Speaker 4And for a lot of my clients. They're like I don't even know what's in this box. I don't even I. I actually refuse to look at this box. I shove it in the back of my brain and my brain one day said you can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2And it like won't let me do it anymore so that's why I'm here. Actually, I'm like fair enough um you know carly I always say life is like a box of chocolates. Yeah, you never know what you're gonna get never know what you're gonna get.
Speaker 4Yeah, can't, can't cancel demons, can't cast out personalities, and it's really simple and kind of colloquial and you know. But I, you know that is. That is kind of the line that I'm walking of, where we're. You know? What does the Bible say about all of this? Um, where am I focusing too hard on the spiritual realm? Cause sometimes we can do that.
Speaker 4Um I know that I can and I'm thinking a little too hard about the machinations of the enemy and giving him a little too much power. Um, where you know, where am I in sometimes not thinking about it enough and where am I hitting that sweet spot in the middle? Um, so yeah, I mean I. There are times where I've been in counseling sessions with some people and I'm like that's just a straight up demon right there. That's just and here's the funny part, it's never the people with with the multiple personalities, it's not the dissociative identity disorder, it's like the people I see without that, that sometimes we'll walk in and I'm like that's that wow I can't help you.
Speaker 3That's a demonic stronghold wow, um, I don't say that you can, just well, I mean you can just can you get out of here?
Speaker 2real great bedside manner. Yeah, she's. You know. You know what Can't help you there. You're full of demons. I really can't. You're at the wrong spot.
Speaker 4You're at the wrong spot. The church is next door, lady.
Speaker 2Maybe call a priest.
Speaker 4You know about that I don't know. No, I'm not trying to make light of that.
Speaker 2But I mean, there are some times where it's I know you are that, that's just what we do.
Speaker 4I'm trying to keep my license here. Guys, I'm kidding. Warren, you're going to have to edit all of this out.
Speaker 2The entire podcast.
Speaker 4The entire podcast. They only get to know about me, and then the podcast ends. I just start with my bio. The podcast ends.
Speaker 2My name is Carl.
Speaker 4and then the exit music, the outro music, great podcast, but no, it is truly I, I think, what I've learned thus far, if I'm, if and this is me kind of externally, saying this for the first time out loud- stuff that.
Speaker 4I've kind of been easy bake ovening inside here. Um is that? Um, it's never as straightforward as we think it's going to be. Um, as far as like how the spiritual and mental work together, I think people would really like for it to be straightforward and for it to be like it's all demons or it's all mental health and, you know, a chemical issue. It can be both and there's there's so far I can get with it with on the mental health side, but there's going to have to be that spiritual component that comes up behind it and really finishes it off. You know, it's kind of like with RTF in the sense where there are some things in RTF and correct me if I'm wrong they're like, hey, we did this, we have received healing deliverance for this, but you're going to have to walk it out and you're going to have to redo some habits and there's stuff you have to live out and continue healing.
Speaker 2Oh, 100%. Yeah, it's almost like going to the doctor and you get like, you know, you injure your knee or whatever and they're like okay, structurally you're good, but you got to do these exercises or you're going to develop the same problem or different problem or whatever, so you got to work it out. So, yeah, that's definitely a component just for clarification for the listeners.
Speaker 3Rtf is restore the foundations.
Speaker 4It's a inner healing ministry for emotional stuff yeah, so in that way as well, the way that the spiritual comes into at least my mental health practice is hey, there are some things we can do in this room and there are some things that you're going to have to go do outside of this room, and I'm a piece of this puzzle. I cannot do rtf with you in this room. I will lose my license. I cannot deliver you from demons because I will lose my life and I will lose my license. I will lose my license and there is a level of deliverance almost I feel, like I've seen for people. Just even in coming in contact with the truth is sometimes enough for a level of deliverance for them.
Speaker 2Does that make sense? It's perfectly scriptural. Okay, it's so scriptural. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free right, there's freedom in the truth.
Speaker 4There's freedom in the truth, preach it. I mean, now that I'm now, I'm feeling confident that I'm on the biblical route, let me continue talking. But I mean, it is true, I've watched people realize things, that is true. There's an exercise I do with some of my clients where, um, they they've experienced a level of trauma to where they're not really sure what's true and what's not true, because there's been a level of indoctrination for them into a belief system that was beneficial for the people, hurting them Like gaslighting, or like, just like like gaslighting or like just just like we might have to edit this out.
Speaker 4We might have to edit this out. So I'm gonna ask ryan to, or not ryan? Uh, warren to, I'm gonna pray about, I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna pray about it, and then I might ask warren to edit this out fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 4Okay, a part of my subspecialty is actually helping people recover from cult abuse and any sort of cult or ritual abuse situation. So and it doesn't always have to be that it can be that you know like the leader of this group is God and anything he says is truth and anything he does to you you deserve. Or it could even just be in a smaller dynamic, like a household, Like well, I wouldn't have to hit you like that if you were a better child, Even something like that, you know?
Speaker 4And they believe it for years, for years, for years, for years, for years. They believe well, it's because I was a bad kid.
Speaker 4That's why you know my dad had to beat me to a pulp. That's why he had to do it. And then they come into contact with. Well, we'll do an exercise where I'll say, okay, well, you believe in God and you believe the Bible is true, right, yes, okay, cool. What is the truth you know from the Bible? What is something you absolutely know is true? It is outside of you, outside of your family. It's objectively true that Jesus came. You know, he came, he took on the sins of the world, he died on the cross, he rose again.
Speaker 4Okay, great, how does that feel, that truth feel? What's it look like in your head? What's it feel like in your body? Tell me, tell me, tell me. And they'll say, well, it's warm, it feels safe, it feels clean, it feels pure. You know, and I'll have them describe it, and that's usually how they describe it and I'll say, okay, let's take this other belief, that the reason your dad, you know, did that to you is because you're a bad kid and you deserved it. How does that one feel? How does that one look in your head? It feels icky, it looks gross, it doesn't feel right, it doesn't make a lot of sense actually.
Speaker 4And even just putting the truth of god and the truth of his word up next to this other belief, they start seeing oh, those don't look the same they don't feel the same. They don't you know, they don't even, and there's there's hard truths in this one about god, but they're, they're. There's an, there's an undergirding of love. That's not here for this one and I've done enough to know that that's not here for this one and I've done enough to know that that's not how that should huh.
Speaker 4Well, maybe that isn't true, maybe I wasn't. I don't deserve that. I didn't deserve that because I was a bad enough kid. And then I'll watch that person stop self-harming, because they were just continuing to self-harm. Cut themselves, you know, do whatever, push, punch their head in the wall, because that's how they learned to handle how bad they were. But when the truth of who God is came up against a lie about who they were, it broke it. And then they were like well, I don't need to.
Speaker 4I don't think I need to hurt myself anymore. Actually, Maybe I don't need to. Maybe, that's not love.
Speaker 2I love the way you said that the truth they had, which was a lie, came up against God's truth and it broke. It did. It's like God's truth is a diamond and nothing can survive it once you smash against it. Yeah.
Speaker 2But I've learned raising kids like they're so impressionable they just take whatever you say and run with it. And so I could see where, in a terrible situation, a kid could just grow up, hit adulthood and just think I'm a total piece of crap, because that's what they've been told. And it's like anything you say to these kids is is the gospel truth, almost right, yeah, and I mean that's. That's just the way the world works, right, you're supposed to. That's why you're supposed to teach away. Teach a child the way they should go when they're young. When they're old, they will not depart from it.
Speaker 2Well, if you screw that up yeah, you teach a child a bad way should go when they're young. When they're old, they will not depart from it. Well, if you screw that up, you teach a child a bad way to go. It's difficult for them to depart from it when they're old too. And that's what you're rewiring people.
Healing and Redemption Through Therapy
Speaker 4It's really like in a lot of ways, yeah, rewiring. I get to see adults. I say I get to because I feel like it's a privilege to be here for this and I felt like that today whenever that I had a client that experienced like really radical healing where we asked jesus to come in um, I get to experience these moments that their parents should have experienced with them, these joys with them of them relearning very fundamental childhood experiences and beliefs that, for whatever, whatever stronghold was over them their family, you know, whatever curse was on them as a family that their parents never got to have it's bittersweet, it's very bittersweet and it makes you angry, like righteously angry, um, because you know you hear some stuff and you're like I would love to punch your dad, like I would love to actually like stomp him like I I know he's like 80 or dead now like I would love to literally punch him in the face um, but um, there's just righteous anger that comes up in you, um, and this, this, this sweetness as well of.
Speaker 4I am watching, in some ways, them get to become the person they were supposed to be that got intercepted or become better, because they have this, you literally stand in the gap as the way their dad or their mom should have.
Speaker 4and yeah, in a lot of ways, yeah, in a lot of ways, being that that in the dynamic of I'm a therapist and you are my client, that day that small hierarchy that is present even if you don't want it to be, of being like I'm the professional or the person who knows more in the room in some ways, but instead of removing choice from you, I'm I'm constantly reminding you that you need to not give it to me that it's yours.
Speaker 4And I think that the choice that free will love that, love that stuff. It's my jam and it's become my jam more as a as a therapist, because choice was is almost always removed from the lives of my clients and it's like they are. We use the. They are. The doors open, the cage is open, the bird does not know how to fly wow and when I watch the bird get to the edge, try a little fly, it's like, yes, it's like I'm watching a child learn how to walk you know, it's like not to infant.
Speaker 4You know, not to make light of my clients or to call them immature.
Speaker 2Anyway, it is.
Speaker 4It is in love, that I say that.
Speaker 3Absolutely.
Speaker 4But it's beautiful to watch people get to this crossroads where they can make the choice that their parents made. They could, or they can, make a different choice. They can make a different choice. They can make a healthy choice, they can make a healing choice, a choice that, if they're a believer, aligns them with the Lord, it brings them into their true identity under the Lord, and to watch them make the choice turn the way of the Lord, it's like yes, oh, my gosh it's amazing.
Speaker 4Even if they're not a believer and they don't realize they're making that choice. Yet sometimes I'm still like, yes, oh my gosh, it's amazing. Even if they're not a believer and they don't realize they're making that choice yet sometimes I'm still like that was good that's leading me towards the Lord. You don't even know it yet.
Speaker 3Yeah, you see the bigger picture going on.
Speaker 4I can see it going on, so sorry not to ramble, no.
Speaker 3We got about oh man, we got about 10 minutes left. I think this is one of honestly for me personally, probably one of the hardest podcasts to like limit, because I'm like I just want to, I just want to go down, like I mean, we were talking about fatherlessness before you showed up really like I would love to know, like, obviously you don't, you can't share anything like specifically, but like how many of your clients deal with like fatherlessness or like a father not being who he was supposed to be?
Speaker 4all of them, all of them every single one wild every single one, Wild, Every single one, Every single one. I will maybe even the idea of fatherlessness to me. The way I think about it, it's probably not the true definition is an absentee Fatherless, but I think there is even in the nature of that word, like you kind of were saying and kind of alluding to in your setup there was the idea of him not being in his true and good role yeah, and that I think that what I see a lot in my counseling profession, in my the niche that I'm in, is I see a subversion of a mocking of that role almost like bad fathers bad fathers, yeah, fathers that pay attention in the wrong ways, fathers that, like the, you know, you know.
Speaker 4They say in every, every, every lie there's a little bit of truth yeah you hear that before, and the enemy is a good liar um, yeah, half truth, half straight, half truth yeah, you know, spin it a little, spin it a little.
Impact of Family Dynamics on Trauma
Speaker 4there I have seen so much like really perversion of fatherhood that is such a huge wreck of people's lives like truly truly wrecking their lives. Wow. So I see it to answer your question. I actually I'm trying to think and I can't think of one client that I have that I treat for trauma who has a stable and loving father figure in their life.
Speaker 3Would you? Would you say this are the. Are there any? Have you had any experience with clients who have like a healthy dynamic of a mom? Or mother?
Speaker 4Um, healthy Objectively? Any experience with clients who have, like, a healthy dynamic of a mom or a mother? Um, healthy objectively? No, healthy comparatively to the relationship with the father? Yeah, um, a lot of what I'll see is a? Um a dynamic of a big personality father and a passive mother um.
Speaker 2Who has her own?
Speaker 4trauma and there is some, some study of like how did they, how did they find, you know like it?
Speaker 2seems to happen a lot where it's.
Speaker 4It's someone who, who you know if there's an intent to. There's a lot of many people you know there's like not great stuff coming from the dad. It didn't just start when the kid was you know, it's, it's generational. It's, it's, it's pervasive throughout the life, you know, span yeah them choosing. Someone who has mom is there, but she is almost like she can't rescue them. A lot of times she's not in a place to rescue them, whether she's got her own traumas, her own issues, she she was already indoctrinated into this domestic system here, you know, and a lot of times the mom can't save them or won't save them or is partnering with it or choosing to look away.
Speaker 4Um, and then so obviously you can see how people would have their these kids brains would go to. No one's saving me here yeah, no one's saving me here I got. The brain says will we either die or we connect with these people? Wow we have. They have to meet our needs. We need food we're a baby we need clothing, we need protection, and the only people here are these people that hurt me. How do I I make that work? How do I attach to them? Wow.
Speaker 4So their brain says we need to lock that trauma up somewhere else so you don't remember it, so that you can attach to them. And so that's how my clients end up. Getting, you know, into these patterns of dissociation is because they have to. But fatherlessness, motherlessness, yeah it's. Wow, that's I. I have yet to encounter a space where that is not and I could, but I've yet to encounter a situation to where there's a healthy dynamic with dad, there's a healthy dynamic with mom, um, that there's safety and stability in the household.
Speaker 2Wow, it's now kind of what you started with Carly your normalcy. It's coming full circle.
Speaker 4It really is.
Speaker 2Like I understand it now, Like why you? Why your testimony is perfect for your calling. Wow. Like you had a great, stable mom and dad. Like you had everything that your clients don't have, right, yeah, and so there's probably like some deeper stuff that I'm not really even able to articulate, but you're carrying things that they've never had, not just your technical skill and your, your knowledge and your authority, but like you, you lived the life that they should have had and, in a way, you're like imparting that.
Speaker 4Wow, no, that's good.
Speaker 2They're getting a, they're getting at least a lens into it Right Through just knowing you. Yeah, cause when you know somebody and you relate to them and you talk with them and you make eye contact and you do, you have a trust relationship, which I know you have with them, right like you start to get an importation of just what they have and it rubs off on you, and I'm sure that that is rubbing off on your clients you know, in like a some kind of deep spiritual way and I think, I think, to go off what you said, chris, I think I find it absolutely fascinating that you had this.
Speaker 3You mind, you're like this, very, very well balanced, like christian, I guess. Like thank you, you know, but like, seriously, like I, I think it would be it you have a balance of like supernatural stuff and not supernatural stuff, and you go into this room and you're able the Lord's given you this gift to discern what is something that he's given them to protect themselves and what is something that is not of him, and I think that's incredible. Few people would be able to do that, I think you honestly summed yeah, few people would be able to do that.
Speaker 4Yeah, I think you honestly summed it up well. For me I feel like I've been a word spaghetti, but I think that if, to answer that question of how do you just start in between, you know, the spiritual, the supernatural, the mental, you know, and where it intersects it, that's kind of like, yeah, you kind of nailed it on the head there.
Speaker 3So thank you yeah Well let's slam this plane.
Speaker 2Word spaghetti that's a new one. I'm taking that Word spaghetti, I'm making it my own. Yes, that's such a good one. This is what this podcast is.
Speaker 3It's just a bunch of word spaghetti. We're going to throw things against the wall. Take it.
Speaker 4Let's go find your key fob. Oh, my lord, yes, jesus, please deliver it to me, my key fob, carly. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. You, thank you.
