Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone, this is Chris. I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast. The scripture, Revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Our hope is that as you listen, you will be encouraged in the Lord. This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him. We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives. All right, trevor burris, thank you for being here.

Speaker 1: 0:54

We appreciate it um, we're honored to have you today. Uh, you've been on the podcast before, or he hasn't been on the podcast before we'll have to let's, let's, let's go, let's bring that back one roll that back roll that tape back this is now b-roll warren take two all right, we are in this. Have you been on a podcast before? Is that where I?

Speaker 3: 1:22

actually we, we just started a podcast ourselves. No way for um uh, one of our uh younger agents at our firm and I are doing the second best realtors on the internet shameless plug, and so it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 3: 1:38

we're just kind of getting started and rolling, but it's kind of a way to share, like, what we think real estate should be about, and we talk a lot about faith. We talk a lot about just like how, if you're looking for the right agent, they need to care about your interests, not their own. And the second best is kind of a cheeky title because we made fun of somebody else in our firm calls themselves the best realtors on the Internet, and so we are now the second best. We have a second podcast and we are themselves the best realtors on the internet, and so we are now the second best. We have a second podcast and we are the second best realtors on the internet so it's fun, but yeah, that's my only experience, but other than that, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 2:14

How many episodes have you?

Speaker 3: 2:16

got.

Speaker 2: 2:16

We're in eight now, so we're just getting rolling wow do one once a week was it the first time you've done a podcast before, like yeah, yeah, I do a lot of youtube videos for for my business but I don't know anything. Yeah, was it weird, like why would it be weird?

Speaker 1: 2:32

I felt, you're making it weird, ryan, why would you?

Speaker 2: 2:35

I'm like the first couple we did. It felt really weird to me because it was like this this microphone in your face and it's it just makes you feel. It made me feel uncomfortable, I agree, I agree, when we started did you hear that?

Speaker 1: 2:49

chris, he agreed okay I guess I'm a natural natural.

Speaker 3: 2:58

I will say from episode one it's not what, andrew, it's felt very natural and maybe Warren's finessing, but still you guys came across as very natural. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 3:09

I will have to credit Warren.

Speaker 1: 3:13

Yeah, he'll leave that in the podcast for sure.

Speaker 2: 3:17

Yeah, there's no chance that's getting edited out.

Speaker 3: 3:22

And if anyone wants to sponsor Warren, we'll drop his email in the comments trevor burris uh, thanks for being here.

Speaker 2: 3:33

Man really appreciate it. Uh, you've heard our podcast, you know not been in it.

Speaker 2: 3:38

Yeah, that's right you know how it flows, where it's going to be a loose hour, hour and a half. We want you to really just hone in on past, present kind of future with your journey with the Lord and how that's looked. Please feel free to include details you feel like the Lord wants you to share, wants you to share Um, we love you. Know. I think my favorite part of hearing someone's story in this podcast is specific stories the Lord kind of has imprinted on their journey and how he connected with them. Um, I think I speak for all of us when someone shares like a God moment or a miracle or something that the Lord intervened in in their journey. It's just so cool to be a part to hear that. So feel free to include those details. Right now you are a worship pastor at Antioch Community Church in Raleigh. Give us some background. Where are you from originally, Um? Have you always done worship? Um, how did you get into that?

Speaker 3: 4:50

Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I grew up in North Carolina. I'm a North Carolina boy, born and raised Um, but I don't have, uh, a completely North Carolina family. I have kind of the Mutt family, my dad from the South, mom from the North, and so most people just point that out automatically. Why don't you have a Southern accent? Well, I didn't have much of a Southern accent in my home so I just kind of dealt with that. But I did went to like very rural high school all around that kind of North Carolina deep South vibes, um, and, uh, you know, loved it growing up, went to church since I was probably right out of the womb Just it's one of the first things they probably took me to literally went to the church and my grandpa, uh, pastored for years, um, and helped the building we were meeting in when I was a young kid. Um, it was uh the one he helped kind of uh, build and plant and like get started, and so, um, a lot of rich history uh, growing up into that was ministry related, um, and so, uh, both of my uncles ended up being pastors, grew up in the four square denomination. We were all within that denomination growing up. I would consider it, you know it's just charismatic in general, but that was, you know, pentecostal charismatic denomination, based out of Azusa Street on West Coast and had like some just yeah, fantastic memories growing up in churches that my family was very invested in and that was where my friend group was. That was where my culture was. I went to school, public school, but ultimately my friends were in the church. Everything I did socially was dealing with the church. So that was just like all my upbringing was right there.

Speaker 3: 6:47

And, um, both of my uncles ended up becoming, uh, pastors in the four square denomination as well. Um, one of them went on to become a district supervisor, which is kind of like the overseer, kind of like what, uh, I guess what Steve is doing for North Carolina, the mountains to see thing, but he was over like the general southeast area, so like the whole southeast, all the states in the southeast. And then, um, eventually moved to california, which is where, like, uh la is where they have their, their base, like international base. And then, um, after several years of being, you guys might have heard of jack hayford.

Speaker 3: 7:25

Um, after several years of being, you guys might've heard of Jack Hayford, after several years of sitting under Jack Hayford, as he was the president at that point, jack Hayford kind of like handed the baton directly to my uncle and he became president of a fourth grade denomination for eight years and my uncle. Meanwhile my other uncle became a pastor and decided to plant a church on the other side of town and we went, our family went with him to this church plant and we did church planting, for it was probably five or six years before I left for college. At that point I think I started.

Speaker 2: 7:59

What year was this?

Speaker 3: 8:00

This was. So I went to college in 2006, so this was like pre five years before that 2000 up to 2006, kind of thing, um, so he was church planning that whole time and our family just joined him and like was part of that process, um, and that was really cool, but I think that's all this time. Growing up in four square, I was very like just dropped into this like hyper Pentecostal. I wouldn't say that four squares a moderate Pentecostal, I can rate them. They're they're, they're chill, they're. They're not like crazy. I mean, I do remember some pretty crazy. Uh, I had this distinct memory You're talking about memories and this is one that just pops out in my brain of growing up. We had a traveling prophet or evangelist or somebody come in I don't know what his title was and he was one of those guys that loves to just like be really crazy and forceful, like with his preaching and just like banging and like saying all these crazy things.

Speaker 3: 9:02

And then I remember at one point he said, all right, we're going to do ministry time. And I just guys, I like saying all these crazy things. And then I remember at one point he said, all right, we're going to do ministry time. And, um, I just guys, I want you guys to prepare your heart. You don't have to do anything, you just have to be ready to expect whatever the Lord's going to do. And without any warning he turns around and goes bam and just like, moves his hand over the back in their chair.

Speaker 2: 9:26

No way, just pass out.

Speaker 3: 9:29

Wow. And it was like oh, here I am, this kid going. Oh, I don't want that to happen to me.

Speaker 1: 9:36

I don't want that to happen to me.

Speaker 3: 9:37

And then he starts, he gets off the stage and he's got his mic and he's walking through the aisles and I'm just like, oh, I was so scared, I was terrified. And he's going around and literally everybody he touches just hits the floor, just nails it, and I'm like this cannot be fake, Like something crazy is going on right here. I don't know what it is, but I'd never seen anything like, even growing up in Pentecostalism, going to church camp every year. I never seen anything like this. Yeah, this was wild. And um, I don't know if our church had ever seen it. Um, but I remember some.

Speaker 3: 10:09

The most distinctive part of that was like he walks up to this one person and, uh, he puts his hand on them and they don't go down, Like it's the one person that finally has not gone down. And I'm like, oh, it doesn't work on everybody. And then he goes uh, you know he. I don't remember what he was talking about at the time, but you know there must be something that's distracting you, that's getting in your way of the Holy spirit, and uh, and that's what's blocking this. And he goes oh, wow, Would you look at that over there? The guy turns his head and he puts his hand on his head and he falls out, and I was like how do I rectify?

Speaker 3: 10:42

this. He just distracted him for a second and then he was down and I was like Whoa. Wow, so it was you know we had some. We had some experiences growing up. I mean, it was nothing like snake handling or nothing weird like that, but four square I would say it's pretty chill on the most part, but but regardless, it was a pretty.

Speaker 3: 11:04

It was a pretty cool upbringing, in that I think most people come or that I talk to, that have experiences with the Holy Spirit, come to it later in life. Maybe they have different church traditions, or my wife, for instance, like she did not grow up in that church tradition, so it's very strange for her to think about some of those things. And yet I was just like, yeah, anything's possible, like about some of those things. And yet I was just like, yeah, anything's possible, like sure, why not? Like might as well, and um, so yeah, I started doing um music.

Speaker 2: 11:32

I think about the point that I got in middle school Um, what was real quick, like what was the relationship with jesus and god?

Speaker 1: 11:44

was it like something that?

Speaker 2: 11:47

all you always had a grid for, or was was. Was that separate from like the power of god? Or like how did your like little kid mind, reconcile moments like that in the church, yeah um relationally with, like the lord?

Speaker 3: 12:04

yeah, I. I think it's like you're born with that grid. When you're born into a very churched family, you know, and born into even a ministry family, you just automatically assume this is what's right and this is the the best part of life, because that's kind of is bred into you. It's just what you grew up with and so I never did not think I wasn't saved. I said too many double negatives. I never thought I wasn't saved and I remember at this is I grew up going to church camp every summer and I remember at church camp one year somebody was very avid in saying like, oh, you're not saved until you say the prayer, like until you make the decision. So I'm like, oh no, I need to make the decision right, I need to say it. I think I'm like fourth grade you know something at that point, third grade like very young, very, very young, and I was like I have to make the decision. And then I did it and I remember like the only thing that changed was me talking to people and telling them yeah, I made the decision, like I follow Jesus now because I said the prayer. But when I think back, even before that, I already felt God's call on my life to love him and to do ministry. Way before I ever said that prayer, you know, like it was very, very young because my parents constantly had me surrounded by great influences and growing up with my family and ministry, it was a very healthy perspective on ministry. I don't have any like church hurt from that perspective, like I really feel like my uncles and my grandfather ministered really well and effectively their whole lives. You know, up until this point, you know, when my grandfather's passed away in 2001,. But my, my, both of my uncles are still in ministry. My cousin is still in ministry. He's actually pastoring a large four-square church out in Huntersville, north Carolina and so, yeah, I just had that grid always there and so I never felt like it wasn't personal or I didn't understand it.

Speaker 3: 14:00

But I will say that there was a lot of, I guess, just going through the motions to make it look like I had everything together. And that's probably one of my character flaws is I'm really good at looking like I have it together but maybe on the inside don't really have it together, and so I'm good at putting on a face, I'm good at acting and so I think I was really good at just being like oh yeah, but like that that's stands out to me about that memory is I remember thinking I don't want to be the guy that gets put on the floor Like that's not me, you know. Maybe I look like it on the outside, but I don't want to be that guy. I don't want to be the guy that gets touched by something that's uncontrollable, you know, and that was that was scary. It something that's uncontrollable, you know, and that was that was scary. It was terrifying to me.

Speaker 3: 14:50

Yeah, one of my earliest memories of just that kind of experience but I something probably that was the most formative to me in regards to music or regards to just what led me, I guess, to what I'm doing right now is my cousin. Zach was like four or five years older than me and was my total role model. The guy like knew he was going to school, he was going into ministry full time and he played uh uh keys, he played guitar, he led worship a lot and I was like I want to be like him. I just want to look exactly like him because he's got everything that I feel like I need to be. You know, it's kind of my quintessential like model for life. Um, I even went to the same college as him, like I mean it goes deep, like I really did follow in his footsteps a lot Um and uh.

Speaker 3: 15:36

yeah, just just admired him a ton and so I picked up music when I was in middle school, started leading vocally. I didn't play an instrument at all but my parents were great vocalists. They were always part of, like our church choirs and they did solos. And so back when solos were cool, you know, you get up in front of church and do like microphone and the choir's like backing you up and to a track and all this. And so I mean I just followed in the footsteps. I started doing solos, I think when I was in like middle school or something up in front of church.

Speaker 1: 16:09

Wow, is there any film footage of that?

Speaker 3: 16:10

I don't, you gotta ask my parents, man, I don't know, maybe Probably, probably somewhere Also got involved with youth group at that point. That was kind of a change from like children's ministry to youth group was like okay, now the youth pastors are kind of calling us into more leadership and having us be more involved. And I think even at the middle school age I was like feeling like I needed to step up as a leader and like do something different that helps lead other people into ministry, and like that. And so I got involved with the worship team there.

Speaker 3: 16:41

When my uncle planted his church, I at that point I'd been leading worship pretty frequently in uh in church, sometimes on Sundays, sometimes in uh or a lot of times in youth group. And he straight up asked me I'm like a high schooler, said, do you want to be the worship pastor for our church that we're planting? And I was like, am I qualified to do that? And I was like, am I qualified to do that? I don't know, can I? And so I actually became like the worship leader at our church. It wasn't a paid position, it was totally volunteer. But it was pretty cool as a teenager, you know, high schooler, to be up in front of like all these adults and leading adult teams, you know, and all that in our church plant and that was really. That was fun. It was kind of a neat learning experience. Uh, I can definitely say looking back, I did not have it together as much as I should have in order to do that. Just like character. Why Like?

Speaker 2: 17:38

what do you mean I?

Speaker 3: 17:38

was immature. You know I was immature. I, I was, you know, a little little self-absorbed. You know I thought, was, you know, a little little self-absorbed, you know, I thought, you know, I'm, I'm important being in this role. I'm kind of better than my peers because I'm doing this thing. Um, I, I even maybe even thought like, well, maybe I'm better than these adults that I'm leading because I'm the one doing this, you know, and, um, you know, it was just kind of a uh, a total lack of maturity and experience that I really needed to do that role. Um, but I'm also really good at putting on the face and looking very humble, you know, and very like, gentle and friendly and all this kind of stuff, when, um, you know, in reality I think I just wanted to be noticed. I wanted to be upfront.

Speaker 3: 18:23

I liked the. I think I just want it to be noticed. I want it to be up front. I like the attraction of it.

Speaker 2: 18:32

I like the leadership aspect of it, all those kind of things. So here's one thing I've admired about good worship leaders is they know the balance of performance and spirit led moments. How in in being a worship leader and pastor. What are some? Not that there's a secret sauce to that, but like what, what are some really good tips for other worship leaders who want to know that balance? You know what I mean. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3: 19:08

yeah, I know it does I. Yeah, I think there there is a balance, but I think it changes all the time. It's a moving target. Um, the lord wants you to be so humble when you step into any position of leadership, right, like he wants you to be so dependent on him and and really like, especially with worship, like honoring him above yourself.

Speaker 3: 19:34

And the bummer is, our culture idolizes people that just have gifts and they have abilities and they have know-how. There is a completely different presence to someone who gets on the stage and is willing to lay down their gifts to honor the Lord. That's like a submission, it's like a giving away of yourself. And, yeah, it took me a long time to find that. Honestly, I did it for a long time and then finally realized and, like I say, it's a moving target, I'm still working on it every day. It's like, okay, what else do you need to yield? What else do you need to let go of? You let go of preferences? Do you need to let go of you know, like your, your own dependence on a, on a certain instrument or a certain style, or like all these different things.

Speaker 3: 20:20

I feel like everybody gets tangled up and like this all the different expectations or things that they feel like everybody gets tangled up in like this, the all the different expectations or things that they feel like are super important about it. And when it really comes down to it, it's all about yieldedness, like the best worship leaders are completely yielded to what the Holy Spirit wants to do. And I mean I, I, those are the ones like I used to idolize, the ones that were just great performers, cause it's like I want to be like that, I want to, I want to be the, the elevations, the Bethels, the guys you know that are like wow, they're just incredible talented performers. And then I actually had some crazy experiences where the Lord showed up and I could not sing.

Speaker 3: 20:57

I could not play and I was like I want this. This is better than all of the performances I can do.

Speaker 2: 21:06

this is better take us into, like where there was there a specific moment, or was there like multiple moments where, like the lord did that since then?

Speaker 3: 21:15

yeah, there was a specific moment that I feel like kind of maybe re-identified or renamed worship for me and what it really was in my heart. But since then there's been many moments of just like coming back to that place or almost chasing that place to get back to like that, that feeling of being completely in God's presence and just not not caring about performance in the least, like just that being so far from your perspective. But, um, yeah, I, I had that specific event happened when I had been in worship ministry for maybe four years, something like that. We'd gone to a conference and we were asked to lead worship for this conference and our team prepared really, really well and we were ready to just like, for whatever it's worth, knock everybody's socks off, do a great job, we're going to do it, we're going to bring the fire. You know it's um, and so we, we showed up this conference, we really we were prayed up, like we were ready to go, like we were excited and, um, and I think the Lord just like yeah, he ministered to us just as much as we were trying to minister to other people during that conference. Like we, we got kind of melted, you know, in in the process of leading worship. Um, and it was cool.

Speaker 3: 22:33

The guy leading the conference was very sensitive, like just full of spirit kind of guy, and I think he could tell that we were up there trying to perform and he was like you know what, let's just let's turn off the music and let's just everybody get down. It's almost like I know you need to be minister, you're gonna get off the stage and you're gonna get ministry, and he did and it just it wrecked us in a really great way. But it wasn't then that I felt it. It was almost like, okay, the Lord's doing something new in my heart specifically related to worship ministry, and that's good.

Speaker 3: 23:06

And then what's funny is because it was just too much to organize like this was like I think it was like a three-day conference. We did many sets during the three days and all this. It was too much to organize another team to be ready on Sunday, but the conference was over on Saturday night and so I just said, well then, whatever team is doing the conference, we're just going to come back and we'll just lead out of the overflow. You know, on on Sunday had no idea how true that was going to be. Um, and so we all busted back, I think we're driving back at like two in the morning or something.

Speaker 3: 23:32

Um, we show up Sunday morning bright and early. All of us are just just filled up, just like really just feeling, just on fire for what the Lord did and how he changed a lot of us and did some things and individual members of the band. So we started up the first song I remember it was Elevations. Oh man, pour it out.

Speaker 2: 23:51

It's your love running over here and now.

Speaker 3: 23:54

It's your glory. Fill this house Fullness.

Speaker 2: 23:57

Yeah, that's the name of the song.

Speaker 3: 24:00

So I just start singing the first verse and the words are just tearing me apart.

Speaker 3: 24:07

Just this experience of expectation and wanting the Holy Spirit to come and the rest of the band. There was a guy that wasn't even there with us that weekend and he's starting to tear up in the drum cage and I'm not even trying to do anything, I'm just like I can't sing. I'm trying to get the words out and I can't sing. And we're trying to play chords and I just I can't play.

Speaker 3: 24:27

I don't know how there was music happening. There was, apparently, because the entire congregation felt what we were feeling in that moment. I don't know what it was, but the music just was falling apart and we were experiencing the Holy Spirit in such a like tangible, like just powerful way, way, um, one of those moments where you just don't want to leave, like I don't think worship stopped that day. I mean, it felt like it went so fast, but I feel like we didn't do anything else, like we just stayed in that place for the entire service. Um, because the holy spirit was just doing something so unique in that moment. Um and um, yeah, I remember kind of debriefing with some of the band members after that and being like what just happened? And we were all like we couldn't even sing, like we could not play our instruments. It felt like like a true, like old Testament. The glory of the Lord fills the temple and everybody is just like overwhelmed you know, and and we were like what is that?

Speaker 3: 25:23

People are coming up to me actually saying I saw smoke, there's smoke in the room, all these things. And just like it was amazing. And like after that moment, there was just something. I didn't even have to verbalize it, but I just knew worship can never, ever be the same. After that, like I would always be chasing that experience over performance and I would always be leading people to chase that experience. You know, it's like we've got to lay down what we think worship is about. After that, like it's not worth it, none of that is worth it. After touching this, you know, and um, and so yeah, and I mean since then, like I've been in worship ministry, I've been out of worship ministry, but every time I go back to thinking about worship, I think about that. I think about I want to be in that place, I want to be so overwhelmed by God's presence that I cannot speak.

Speaker 2: 26:14

And I can't sing.

Speaker 3: 26:15

That's the best worship in my mind, when the music can't go any further.

Speaker 1: 26:20

I'm ready for it, man. It would be awesome. Let's go.

Speaker 3: 26:27

I remember I saw jonathan david helser.

Speaker 1: 26:28

One time I was in a worship event with him and he just started like in the middle of one of the songs, like he finished the verse or whatever, but then he just started jumping up and down, went off to the side of the stage, just started shouting and worshiping and I mean that's kind of his vibe anyways, him and Melissa. But I mean I can vividly see it now because it epitomizes what worship should be.

Speaker 1: 26:53

Just like he didn't care that there was an audience there, like he was just worshiping and obviously he knows enough audiences there. He set up an event it's speakers and amplification and all that stuff.

Speaker 3: 27:07

But it's like you can kind of detach your spirit from the fact that you're performing, that there are others engaged with you, and just be free to just be you and the lord yeah and that ushered in just like that whole night was just incredible you know, yeah, I've been a part of so many experiences since then where you just got to that like overwhelming, like tangible presence of god and it's like man. When you get to that place, everything that we focus on like in the day-to-day just stops being important. I mean, it's just like you touch heaven, literally. You know what it feels like to not have any of this world matter and only Him matter, and it's so for lack of better words addictive.

Speaker 3: 28:05

It's like you just have to have it back. You have to get back to that place because you know it's better than anything else you can get. And yeah, I'm so grateful that the Lord did that and he did it at a really pivotal moment. I think in my perspective, I think I could have taken worship a very different direction at that moment. I think I was doing good enough in my role as a full-time worship minister to like go full on, like let's match elevation, let's go Bethel, let's go full on.

Speaker 3: 28:39

You know, because I was training my teams to be very capable of all this. I mean Warren's on one of my teams now he knows we're not using tracks, we're not doing like all this sophisticated like kind of cover up the blemishes music so that we can sound like hyper-professional. But that's like where I was heading, we were getting deep into stuff, spending a lot of money and just like working my teams really hard. I actually some of the hardest parts about worship ministry was having to talk to people that could not keep up with the progress of we were making in our worship teams and telling them.

Speaker 3: 29:10

Hey, I need you to step down because you can't keep up. And it was painful because I, in my heart, I didn't want to do that, but I knew if we're going to make progress, I got to make some cuts, you know. I got to get rid of some people that aren't capable of doing what the vision I thought in my head was where we needed to go.

Speaker 1: 29:29

Holy cow, you can't shred enough on the guitar. Basically, yeah.

Speaker 3: 29:35

Or you just can't keep up, you are not capable of doing what we need you to do in a worship setting and super hard conversations. It's like, yeah, you think about like pastoring and pastoring should be caring for people, loving people, like lifting them up, raising them into their God-given identity, and that's like, oh no, actually I need you to match my identity of you and if you can't, then you're out. I mean, I speak for a lot of the unfortunate portions of worship culture out there right now and I'm not just getting this from like hearsay. It's like I know I have a great friend I just talked to you recently who kind of went through the elevation ringer and was like part of their teams and saw it from the inside and not knocking. I mean I know there's some fantastic people at.

Speaker 3: 30:22

Elvish, I just know whatever leaders he was around. It was toxic, it was really harmful to him and they got out thankfully and he kept his faith somehow after a lot of really tough stuff.

Speaker 2: 30:36

But it's like the performance culture can motivate, like such a different pursuit in worship of a like such a dip, different pursuit in worship. Um, and it's because I have a brother who worked for a mega church, uh, for a while and he ran, he was the top sound guy there and he was like it blew his mind when he would get very, very talented people that we all know lead a worship set and they're so demanding, they're so performance minded it like it really like made him kind of do a reality check of any entertainer, christian entertainer because he was like it, like he took it with a grain of salt, like you should, but also it was like I'm doing a worship set with these guys for a big conference that's going two or three days. There's no change in their attitude of there's a gifting the Lord's placed on their life and you know that they are impacting people. But, reconciling, where is the performance begin and where does it end? You know, yeah, it's.

Speaker 3: 31:59

I. There's so many characters in scripture that I feel like I picked up on after I kind of learned this, that it's like, oh no, the reason they're there is to show us why human performance is actually one of the greatest weaknesses we have. You know, it's like the reason you get this story about Samson. It's like, okay, I'm going to give you all these gifts and ask you to steward them for me and watch you spoil them and destroy them completely and then end up causing yourself and those around you so much pain and then ultimately losing your life just to try to bring back some form of righteousness to yourself. And it's just like tragic stories, david, how he's just so gifted and so talented and ruddy and handsome and all this kind of stuff and is known for his worship.

Speaker 3: 32:46

And we all just idolize David as like, oh, he was the man after God's heart. And yet to throw all of that away, to commit adultery and to commit murder and like all these things and to come like, yeah, I've been ruminating a lot on Psalms 51 and just how David is crying out so purely, maybe for the first time, acknowledging his weakness. His weakness was in trying. His weakness was in looking correct and being the best he could be. That was his greatest weakness. And here he is acknowledging that and just saying you know me, god, you know my sin. You knew how bad I was before I ever did any of this stuff. You knew it, and I'm the only one that you ever sinned Like I. You are the one that I sinned against, not other people Like you are the one that I screwed up because I tried to do this myself, you know.

Speaker 1: 33:43

How did you realize that like in your life? So you're at this crossroads you could take the worship like down that path of like, performance-based and like. Did you have that realization or did you just follow the Lord's leading into?

Speaker 3: 33:59

a different way Well ironically, after that experience I feel like that is what kind of tipped the weight in favor of me actually pulling out of worship ministry for a season. I got this great experience but there was a dynamic going on at the church that wasn't healthy and it definitely wasn't healthy for our family at that point. I'm married, I have two kiddos, my wife well, maybe one expecting one, and the other is just like a year old and my wife is like I want to stop working so I can be at home with the kids and I'm like I can't do that and be in worship ministry. But at this point, because the Lord had detached performance from me to like what worship is really about, it was a whole lot easier to say you know what, let's pray about it. And if the Lord wants me to lay this down, that's okay, I'm good with it. And so we did pray about it and we both felt confident that the Lord was asking me to step away from worship ministry and it's definitely my dream job.

Speaker 3: 35:09

I wanted this. You know, all through college I was doing worship through. I was a youth pastor for several years and yet I kept trying, like grasping, for ways to do worship. I actually auditioned at Elevation for a prodigy program, they did trying to get to worship. You know, one of the wisest things that was ever said to me was actually by Chris Brown at an elevation interview said hey, man, like you're not ready for this, but you need to keep going after this.

Speaker 2: 35:35

Wow.

Speaker 3: 35:36

And I was like man, like he lit such a fire inside of me. It was the wrong fire, but it was. It was a fire to like become as good as him, you know, and become as good as elevation or whatever, and um, and so I just I kept pursuing it, kept going after it. But at that moment, like when God kind of broke me of that performance mentality, I think after that, maybe several months after that, I just kept pursuing like this, this, like new perspective of like, if we're going to get up in front of people, we've got to go after God, not after like perfection or not after um, not after.

Speaker 3: 36:11

Whatever the performance objective was Like, we've got to focus on God, we've got to make that our primary objective. And so I just started to like subtly shift the culture of our worship teams and all that. And so then, when we're like lifting this up to the Lord and saying like maybe I should lay it down, it was like sure, yeah, of course. Like I guess God had changed so much in me by then that I was like, yeah, I don't need this anymore. Um, I'm okay to worship without this position here in the uncommon path studio we have a kiddos.

Speaker 2: 36:42

It's part of a part of real life, part of the actual you're looking for a polished podcast with no interruptions. You have not come to the right place. You need to get your own life and realize it's not about perfection. Oh yeah, yeah, the thing with Chris Brown. Where were?

Speaker 3: 37:06

we Chris. Chris asked the question. You got to ask it again Two year old, just got home from school.

Speaker 1: 37:12

Um yeah, a good, a good reminder to not be super polished in performance Two year old, comes in and interrupts the podcast. But I think my, my question was like um, you know the what, what, what sent you on the different path? And I think you answered it. It was like that experience and then praying about letting.

Speaker 3: 37:37

Let it go of the worship for a season um.

Speaker 1: 37:41

So you that the lord confirmed that yeah, you and your wife. Yeah, and then where did you go from there?

Speaker 3: 37:47

Yeah, I mean, it was until that moment when I let go of worship ministry. Daddy, I want a tea.

Speaker 2: 38:00

Daddy, I want a tea. So great he's asking if I want tea.

Speaker 3: 38:08

Want tea, that's so sweet it's tea in your iowa cup. I have your son actually on this cup. You just noticed that yeah, that's silas yeah rise and shine all right, that was awesome watching his baptism this weekend yeah, wasn't that cool.

Speaker 1: 38:24

It's so cool that was.

Speaker 2: 38:26

That was really fun very cold very cold very cold leslie said that you kind of had to like force him under because he was like not wanting to go funny story.

Speaker 1: 38:37

Like I'm starting to share and I'm like it's going to share a little bit, and he gets in as I'm sharing and I'm like, okay, all right, you're getting it. So he's already freezing cold after I'm done sharing for a minute or two and then when it came time to like put him under, you know, he kind of got his down to his waist but when his back and like neck hit that water, he his instincts kicked in and he was trying to keep that head above water. I basically had to shut him down I saw a video of it later.

Speaker 1: 39:06

I'm like oh it didn't look great it's kind of push him down in there this is you will be baptized you can see, I can see someone taking that moment out of context, being like here on wral.

Speaker 2: 39:20

This is what this church is doing you're forcibly baptizing children. Yeah, in cold weather, so funny.

Speaker 3: 39:32

Oh, my goodness For the record. He was there willingly and he really wanted to do it and that's what I told him.

Speaker 1: 39:36

I was like nobody can question your resolve. Nope, you're getting baptized in 45 degree water.

Speaker 3: 39:41

Yep, my man was committed.

Speaker 1: 39:43

Yeah, he was committed, he wanted to do it All right Back to do it All right Back to the podcast. Yeah, I'm sure we'll be interrupted again. Sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2: 39:55

What was it so with that? You took a backseat and said, started saying no to worship. So where did that go? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 40:06

I, when I, when we agreed to do that, I told the pastor like hey, I'm, I'm planning to step back. I don't have a plan of where I'm going next. I don't think it's going to be a ministry. I think we're taking a break from ministry. I kind of feel like the Lord's saying that, but I'm here to help you transition through that whole process. Um, funny tidbit at that point we were doing a major renovation of our worship facility and so I was helping, like spend the room around like we had.

Speaker 3: 40:33

The whole stage was on one end of the room and we were hiring a contractor to come in and do like, like commercial renovation to this space to move the worship stage to like the side of the room so it'd be more like horizontal and that way and um, because of budget we were talking about this earlier because of budget, I ended up doing so much of the work myself, like rewiring the sound system, installing house lights I actually purchased and found a way to like a dimmer and all this kind of stuff to install the house lights and did all that myself. Wow, um, dangerous things. I was up on a um because we had one of those high ceiling churches, of course, as they all are for some reason. Um, uh, we had one of those uh lifts and I was like up on the lift, like as far as it would go, and then I was standing on top of the rails to reach the ceiling to wire the lights, but yeah, yeah, I was probably 35, 40 feet in the air, standing on top of something you

Speaker 3: 41:37

know 20 something. I could do that, I guess. Or was I 30 something then? I don't know. It was not good, it was not safe, regardless. But it was just cool because I learned so much through that process and that was kind of what I was finishing much through that process and that was kind of what I was finishing my ministry role, as I don't think they knew when we started it. But by the end of the reversal the pastor knew I was leaving and that we needed to be looking for a new replacement. But wild, because now that I'm at Antioch I just helped them transition everything from one facility to another and I would not have known how to do any of that unless I'd done it in person at our church before.

Speaker 3: 42:12

It was so cool. Somebody came up to me recently and was like man, like the Lord really knew what he was doing when he asked you to take this role right now, didn't he? And I was like I guess, I don't know. I knew all about this stuff so I could help. You know, that's not your typical worship. Leader hat, I guess, is like remodeling and rebuilding a sound system. I don't know, I did it, though it was. It was pretty cool, so that was fun. Blessing for our church.

Speaker 3: 42:37

I guess I knew how to do that. But um, but yeah, so I I I told them I gave them time to kind of bring in somebody else while I was still on staff, and and they were gracious enough to let me kind of start researching, figuring out what I was going to do next. And one of the pastors at the that had been at church when I started five years earlier had just retired, I think, like two years before or something like that, and he actually helped us buy our first home as our realtor, and so I reached out to him and said, john, you just made the transition from ministry to like another kind of you know uh, career.

Speaker 2: 43:15

Do you?

Speaker 3: 43:15

think like do you think real estate would be a good fit for me? Cause I think that could be something maybe I could be good at. And he was just like absolutely, he's like Trevor, you have a pastor's heart. That's all we do in real estate. We pastor people. Wow, that is like this role, in a nutshell is like you, you are looking out for people's best interests, you're serving them, you're loving them, you're caring for them. That, yeah, I think that'd be a great fit for you. So I went to real estate school and got my license all while I was finishing up at the church I was at. And so, wild turn of events, I just had a conversation this was like six months ago with the person who'd been the pastor of that church before looking to get into real estate themselves. You're kidding. It was like whoa, what is happening? Twilight Zone situation, I don't know, but I was talking to him about getting into real estate.

Speaker 1: 44:05

So apparently pastors go into real estate.

Speaker 3: 44:06

I don't know what I was talking to him about. Getting into real estate. So, um, apparently pastors go into real estate. They know that. Um, but uh, but yeah, so I and I got my my license. I started full time in that when you go full time in your own business, do you make any money? No, you don't make this work and, um, big faith step stepping away from ministry, which was really the only thing that I was trained to do when I got my degree in college, like that's where.

Speaker 1: 44:39

I felt comfortable.

Speaker 3: 44:41

Pastoral ministries. Okay, yeah, so I mean I was, I was gearing up for ministry Like this was going to be my life, you know, and so stepping away from that was a big like U-turn and just doing something different and so yeah, but fortunately found a great firm of believers. Actually, the owners are pastors of their own house church.

Speaker 2: 45:01

Wow.

Speaker 3: 45:02

And that's really cool Just took me under their wing, said, hey, we will help you be successful, like we will help you be successful, like we will make you. That is such a rarity in the real estate world. It's very dog eat dog. It's like nobody wants to help anybody. Everybody's looking out for themselves, that's it. And so to have a firm? That's actually like no, no, no, we want you to succeed, we want to help you. Um, and they just got me going really fast.

Speaker 1: 45:25

How long have you been in?

Speaker 3: 45:26

it Six years? Yeah, really fast. How long have you been in it? Six years, yeah, six. As of last spring, so six years of doing that full time. I have almost gotten into worship ministry several times since leaving. Just different opportunities came up and I was like, oh, maybe I should look into this because I don't know if I want to be in real estate forever. It's never left me. You know, I've always thought if I could do anything with my whole life, it would be ministry. Um, but I also realized, like this is just the season that God has me in and that's okay to lay that down. Have you been a pastor?

Speaker 3: 46:03

like a pastor pastor, not a senior pastor. If we're identifying it by like, a, like a role of which, um, you're over a whole church. But I was. I was just a youth pastor and then a worship pastor, okay, um so, but never a senior pastor. If you ask my my wife, if I will be a pastor, her answer is undoubtedly yes, um.

Speaker 1: 46:27

Why would you say that?

Speaker 3: 46:29

She actually said that the moment I left that church and worship ministry. Wow, I think that was probably one of the most profound things I've ever heard. It was true prophecy. It was just like she felt the Holy Spirit and she said it. She's like God is going to honor you so much for laying down this right now and you will pick it all back up again in the future, but you'll be even more blessed than you ever have been in that role. Um, you're probably in training for it. I think so. I, I think we both feel that we know that heather would say like I'm way not ready for that, like I'm not, but also she's not, like we need a lot of training, we need to still grow up a lot, um, but I think there's yeah, there's a depth of calling on both of us for sure that we feel like and honestly, now that we've been in an industry that has nothing to do with ministry, it's we have a whole different definition of what that could look like which is really cool too.

Speaker 3: 47:33

It's like I'm not afraid of thinking I may be completely bivocational the rest of my life. That's cool, Like I'm down with that, Whereas before I would have gone I feel like I was indoctrinated from a young age. It's like no, if you're going gonna be a pastor, you have to be poor, you have to like you have to, just you know live in the parsonage you gotta like you know do you gotta not afford anything for Christmas, like.

Speaker 3: 47:55

This is just your life, this is what you give up to be a pastor in ministry and um, not that we're rich by any means, but it's like the point was it's a vow of poverty. That's what you're assigning on for um, and I feel like I've got a very different perspective now, being outside of that like full-time ministry role, but also realizing I'm still very capable of doing ministry within the church and outside of the church and um, and I could do that while holding down a job that was, that was a yeah, good new revelation as we stepped into that, but uh, I have a question.

Speaker 2: 48:36

What, what is worship look like for you in?

Speaker 3: 48:40

I will say, in that season, um a lot of my you know secret, like just unseen time with God, was there's a lot of hostility between us.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Um, I yeah, Between you and God.

Speaker 3: 49:07

I was frustrated that he had me let go of that. You know, I think I was frustrated. I was frustrated with losing that part of my identity and you know, I'd like to say I just like, oh, I just launched off the charts after taking that faithful step, you know, and follow the lord it. No, actually, I think those were probably some of the darkest years of of my life.

Speaker 2: 49:32

Really.

Speaker 3: 49:33

Yeah, of our marriage. I mean, it's just, it was not fun to let go of something that I'd wrapped so much of my identity around. Um, and it got better. It just, you know, it took a while to untangle guess, untangle myself from that version of like who I thought I was going to be forever. And then what was cool is, you know, after many iterations of like you know, trying to get plugged back into church. This was like around 2020 when we stepped out, and so we had a pretty hard time connecting to a church outside of being in ministry. So you're automatically connected to a church in ministry, but even then we weren't really connected to any community at that church. It was a big reason we left Plus it's COVID, plus it's COVID and so we we got connected to a church. That church. The pastor left shortly after, went back to the West Coast where he was from.

Speaker 2: 50:30

Was that y'all's connection to that church, kind of we knew some different people at the church, but then also, he was really the reason we were choosing to stay. Okay, gotcha.

Speaker 3: 50:39

And so he leaves and we think, okay, well, we'll just be faithful and we'll stick around and see what happens. And then COVID hit and we were just completely out of church, didn't have any community at that point because we didn't have enough time to establish it. Community takes time and we had no time to establish real relationships prior to COVID, after getting out of ministry, so we were kind of isolated, hardcore isolated. You know many conversations about should we move back towards parents? Should we just up and leave? Real estate was going good but it's like well, that's like it's nothing if you don't actually have like a life to you know enjoy with it.

Speaker 3: 51:19

Um, I mean, we moved out to the boonies at one point just like, oh, maybe we can just get some land and live in a nice big house and like be out, away from everybody, and made us more isolated and, yeah, just feeling very detached. And it really wasn't until we came to Antioch, which was about three and a half years ago or so, that I was kind of getting to a healthier spot. I feel like in my relationship with the Lord it's like I never let go of talking to Him, like I always had this conversation going with Him. But a lot of it felt like I was angry at Him or just frustrated that things weren't going the way that I wanted them to go and that I always dreamed of them going, untangling my dreams and untangling like my purpose and all that. But it was cool.

Speaker 3: 52:08

I don't know if it might have even been that same conversation with my wife where she was kind of prophesying over me, but she said I feel like I see God pouring out these jewels, like like real jewels, into your life and all of those are gonna be like the blessings that he brings to your life in this next season because of your obedience to lay this down, but but I'm like in the middle of it, I'm not getting any jewels. I feel like I'm jewel-less, like I got nothing good going on here, and I kept craving to get back into it. There was like an addiction that I didn't realize I still was dealing with, even though I'd kind of made that decision like, oh, this isn't about performance, but it still was. You know, somewhere in my heart it was still about needing to be seen, needing to be noticed, you know, um, but it was. It wasn't real, maybe, or as real as it should have been, and so I was struggling with how to make it real without this identity attached to it. You know, how do I make my faith real as realer than it's ever been, um, and so, yeah, but I found antioch.

Speaker 3: 53:11

It was a fun story. Uh knew a couple of folks from here and um started going was initially turned off by, uh, the fact that nobody was wearing masks, because this was like 2021 and we were freaking out a little bit because we've just been in a church that literally shut down for like a year and a half, and um, but we needed a church that was doing community right now and we needed it. Bad, we were really in a not a great place. Um, and so we we roll up and no one's wearing masks, so we literally turned around and walked out for the sermon that was my first Antioch experience, I think.

Speaker 3: 53:46

I saw Sam. I knew Sam Blinson and so I saw Sam and I was like on the way out, like uh, bye. So awkward.

Speaker 3: 53:55

Don't know what to say, but I'm going to leave. But, yeah, just walked out. I think we tried. It was a string of just messed up like church start and stop kind of things going on in that season. Somehow we found our way back and that sunday steve got up on the the stage and in one of his ramblings one of his rabbit trails, as you like to say in your uh, your podcast, yeah, um, one of his thousands of rabbit trails he gives every time he speaks um was. It was totally unrelated to what he was saying, but he said something about.

Speaker 3: 54:30

I think that was the year of like it was just something political going on. I forget what it was. It was something very. It was a lot of tension in the air about politics, maybe even related to COVID or I don't know what it was. But anyways, he said something about if you're coming to this church and you are lifting up a candidate or a policy or something over the kingdom of God, I don't want you to stay here. And we were just like first Sunday, actually let's do a message there we were like holy cow, he just dropped a truth bomb and that will. I mean. We were looking for something that was transparent. That was real. That was like honest and actually going after Jesus like the right way. And to hear him say something so bold from the stage, like that, it was like we both looked at each other and we're like, yeah, we're in, we'll stick here.

Speaker 3: 55:23

And yeah, but just we needed to find that connection that we felt like we can actually build community in and grow in. And I felt like right around that point I kind of started to come back to an acceptance of Lord. I am okay if I don't ever play on stage again or sing in worship in front of people.

Speaker 3: 55:54

Again, I'm okay with losing that. I can lay that down. I'm good with it now. And he really just the only way I can describe it is he had to strip what I thought was my identity from me. You know, he had to just take it off and help me see that that wasn't what he wanted from me and that he just purely wanted me to be with him, like he just purely wanted me to be his and that was enough. And so, yeah, came to Antioch. I feel like one of the people I knew was actually on the worship teams instantly mentioned me to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, who was the worship pastor at the time, instantly came up and said hey, no pressure, but when you're ready? That's hilarious.

Speaker 2: 56:39

And.

Speaker 3: 56:39

I was like you know what? I'm good, actually, I'm going to take a break for a while. I kind of need the space. And she's like okay, totally cool, like respect, that Like you take as long as you need, not forceful. That was amazing, cause everywhere I'd been up until that point was always like hey, when do you want to get up? Let's do it.

Speaker 2: 56:56

Let's do it.

Speaker 3: 56:57

She was just very like, gentle, like did not need to coerce me or force me into doing anything. Um and um and it was funny cause I picked up on that from all the worship teams too. I mean, warren, you were up there like one of the first times I was there. And um, like Nate, carrie, hal were up there then, like all these, these folks are still around. And I remember thinking, well, first I remember having to turn off like my critical Warren did good, he did good. Um, there was, yeah, there was some issues you know and and I I naturally stepped into it, going I can fix that, I can fix that. I know that's not good, I can deal with that. Um, thinking I have something to offer here, so I have to figure out how to do it better or like whatever. That was like in the back of my head.

Speaker 3: 57:43

But then I remember completely being disarmed by the just transparency in the way that, like the worship leaders, led with such love and conviction and honesty and I was like man, like this is. This is back to where I was, you know several years back, like several years in distance. Now, where I'm going, this is. This is back to feeling like worship means more than performance and I love seeing that.

Speaker 3: 58:11

I love seeing that modeled from the Antioch stage and I could tell it's like it was part of Elizabeth's leadership, it was part of just what they were doing. And so, you know, I said no, I'm not gonna get involved right now, but I'm really excited just to be a part, just to like watch this, and so it was neat, it was, I feel like I found a home and the the passion that God was trying to stir in me even before I left.

Speaker 2: 58:34

I I feel like it was the Lord's providence, one to like, as you put it, break off kind of that identity piece of you. But to like it was right before COVID, right. Like for you to choose a completely different career before 2020 when worship leaders were in most part obsolete. You know what I mean. Like massively deconstructing.

Speaker 3: 59:05

Yeah, true.

Speaker 2: 59:08

It's so wild that the Lord told you to lay that down when he did, so that you could.

Speaker 3: 59:15

Heather and I say this all the time God knew what we needed way more than we did, and he did it at the exact right time.

Speaker 1: 59:24

I can't even what a time to start in real estate. Yes, yes, it's so hard to start in real estate.

Speaker 3: 59:33

Yeah, yes, like, yes, look like it's so hard to start in real estate.

Speaker 1: 59:34

It's known right because, like so many people, try so many people fail, so many people fail. It is a high failure, high failure rate because the barrier to entry is not that hard. You can go get it your licensure and stuff, pay some money, but then it's on you to make it.

Speaker 3: 59:49

You gotta create all the business you gotta yeah, you gotta jump off all that business.

Speaker 1: 59:52

And but 2020, man started a massive real estate boom, especially in north carolina. So like, yeah, the timing like worship. You know, I look at financial analytics, right, so it's like financial advisors are on the downtrend, but realty is on the uptrend. It's like you literally like sold high and bought low on on your career.

Speaker 3: 1:00:16

Exactly what it felt like I mean, I think about those like jewels that heather was telling, like falling down on me and receiving those from the lord, and I just I feel like so much of that has been in our season of him just knowing, before we even got there, what was like right for us and stepping into it as obediently as we could, but not knowing how good he was going to be to us, you know, in that process and so, yeah, just so many blessings of the timing of that Even coming to Antioch when we did.

Speaker 3: 1:00:44

There was so much timing that happened that it's just, it's still. It's blowing me away. Like one of the first conversations actually one of the before I got up on stage for the first time in Antioch, elizabeth called me and was like hey, you know, I've gotten to know you a little bit over the last month. I hope this isn't weird. I hope I'm not like totally right now, elizabeth, we might need to edit this out. Let's find out if it's okay from her. Um, but I really feel like you're supposed to be in the role that I'm in, so no pressure, I just want you to think about it. And I was like no, um, it's just like that's okay, that's okay.

Speaker 3: 1:01:25

I just I felt like I needed to ask. This is before I ever got on stage and I'm like what in the world? Like you don't know me, I could totally bomb on Sunday. Like you don't know. And I think she was hearing something from the Lord. I didn't know it. I thought, no way. I think my wife told me one of the first Sundays I was there too she, she's like you're going to be worship pastor here and I was like why are you saying that? Like I'm trying to lay this down, like no.

Speaker 3: 1:01:50

I don't want that. So I literally laid it down as much as I could. I had no hopes of being in this role like whatsoever, and intentionally like ran away from it if anything. And I think it was good, because when it came back, she literally came back to me right before I accepted this role and said hey, I know you're already going to say no, so it's cool, but I just felt like I have to ask you. I got to be obedient. The Lord told me to ask, so I'm just going to do it. Would you be interested in stepping in as the worship pastor when I step out? And I was like, yes, and she's like really, and I was like Elizabeth.

Speaker 3: 1:02:28

A whole lot has changed since like we first talked, and this is absolutely the right time you know Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:02:35

And so it's just wild to see how God orchestrated all that, like lined it up, gave me the success I needed in this business to support my family and like actually start and have have a like a bit of momentum going so that I don't even, you know, keel out in the last couple of years, which has been a lot slimmer for real estate. But it's like just the blessing that God brought us and like helped me get this started and founded in such a great time and then bringing this back to me when I really didn't want it or I didn't ask for it. It was just something I didn't expect and I didn't want to expect, but it was good.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

One of the funny stories I like to tell people about me getting to Antioch was I actually got. So there was one point I think this was it was 2021. That winter, for some reason, had been just really weird in real estate and I had absolutely no business. I went months without a closing and it was terrifying and we were like I don't know how this is going to go and maybe we should get back into ministry. Maybe we should.

Speaker 3: 1:03:40

That's all I knew outside of real estate, like maybe that's the only option. And Heather, on a whim, goes like searching for positions and she sees this position open in Charleston, south Carolina. We've always had this weird actually, when I was at that conference I was talking to you guys about where I got nailed by the Lord, a prophecy was given over us and it was just the word Mount Pleasant and I was like Mount Pleasant. And then they said something about seeing like a football jersey or something like that. And I was like, oh yeah, I grew up in Mount Pleasant. And then they said something about seeing like a football jersey or something like that. And I was like, oh yeah, I grew up in Mount Pleasant, that's the town I grew up in.

Speaker 3: 1:04:11

And they go no, I think it's South Carolina. And I was like, yeah, we know of Mount Pleasant, south Carolina. And they're like, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm seeing Mount Pleasant, south Carolina. And it was just in the back of our heads as, like we know Charleston, we know Mount Pleasant, we love going to these places. They're gorgeous, they're affluent, they're beautiful, just fantastic to go on vacation. Heather and I, just one of our favorite places to go is Charleston and we always dreamed, hey, maybe we could do ministry in Charleston. Wouldn't that be fun? Or like live in Charleston, just a pipe dream, like just out there like wow, maybe that's what that prophecy meant.

Speaker 3: 1:04:45

We'd always say to each other you know, and so she's looking this up and she sees this position for a worship pastor at a church in Charleston. You should apply. And I'm like okay. And she's like no, you're not. And I was like yeah, I am. So I applied and they called me back and this pastor apparently the ad had been like months old, I don't know Just like they had hired long time ago. But he goes. Actually I have a friend down the street that's looking for a worship pastor. Do you want me to connect you to them? And I'm like sure, why not? Like hail Mary, like I don't think this is going to actually pan out, but I have nothing going for me right now. I just might as well try. It Ends up being the largest Anglican church in the United States.

Speaker 2: 1:05:28

Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:05:29

Is in Mount Pleasant, south Carolina, and is looking for a worship pastor to come and partner with them for a downtown campus in Charleston that they're planting. This downtown campus is completely funded by the mega church in Mount Pleasant. Because they're doing so well, they don't even need their. They don't even need them to support themselves. They just support all these church plants around Charleston. And I'm like I have no idea about Anglican churches, but sure I'll go and check it out.

Speaker 3: 1:05:56

So I go for this whole weekend. They wow me with like I didn't know anything about Anglicans before this and I am like amazed afterwards. I'm like this is an amazing church, one. They have a really weird history, but they're an amazing church and they are filled with the Holy Spirit. Wow, and they're going for it and like words of prophecy, like all these crazy things, and yet they still preserve like liturgy and very similar to like what? Antioch's kind of chasing this, like preservation of like these beautiful deep things and these old historical spiritual things, but also like being okay with the presence of the Holy Spirit, and like tongues and prophecy and all these things. And so I'm like this is amazing. I had no idea this even existed. And they offer me the position on a silver platter and I'm just like we would love to have you come. And I'm like, pause, I need to pray about this. And so we came home.

Speaker 3: 1:06:52

Weirdly enough, steve had called me on the way down for some reason. Hey, I want to catch up with you guys. I want to break bread with you, is what he said. I want to catch up with you guys, I want to break bread with you, is what he said. I want to have you over for dinner. And I'm like, okay, yes, we would love that, but I'm actually going down to Charleston right now to see if I might take a position at this church, so I'll let you know how it goes after I get back.

Speaker 3: 1:07:11

So I get back home and I'm like I got to call Steve. There's one guy that I want his wisdom on this. It's Steve. So I called him and I said, hey, steve. So I got the position.

Speaker 3: 1:07:27

They gave it to me, they offered it to me, but I don't know if we're supposed to stay in Antioch and stay here in Raleigh. So I just kind of want to work that out with you. This guy's maybe had three conversations with me up to this point, but everyone's just been like amazing, I already love him and I don't know him that well, and he is on the phone for like three hours with Heather and I just talking us through it and we're voicing our like obvious concerns. And, hey, what if we don't feel like we're healthy right now? Should we be taking on a ministry role? Cause I feel like we're just now like starting to get there at Antioch Um, you know what if, like just all the what ifs, just brought them all out to him and he kind of worked through all of it with us. He's like what about infant baptism? That's a thing at, uh, at uh yeah, the anglican church.

Speaker 3: 1:08:09

So, um, there's just a lot of like what ifs and working through it and he goes okay, well, I'm praying for you guys. I just want you to make the right decision and we get off the phone and we instantly were like it was like that decision about worship all over again.

Speaker 2: 1:08:23

Like do.

Speaker 3: 1:08:23

I want performance or do I want you know him? Do I want his presence? And we both got off the phone, looked at each other and said we're staying.

Speaker 2: 1:08:33

Wow, no way.

Speaker 3: 1:08:35

We are not going, no way, we're going.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

It was something that, like, we just felt it and we knew after talking to.

Speaker 3: 1:08:41

Steve, we're like we want that, more than that. You know, we want to be where people are chasing his presence and we know it and and maybe we don't get what we want out of it, but we feel confident enough to just like say okay, lord, like our finances are not great, but we're going to like just trust you and not go with the shoe in option. It was more money than I ever would have made in ministry and it was an amazing position.

Speaker 2: 1:09:07

Secure like just no issues Um but you knew it wasn't the right call.

Speaker 3: 1:09:12

I mean it wasn't right.

Speaker 2: 1:09:14

Dude, this is like almost makes me want to tear up's like blows my mind like you get a prophetic word about this place a long time ago that you don't even know if is a real prophetic word or not yeah and then, like, everything lines up perfectly at the perfect time and is given to you with more money than you could have made, and you get off the phone and both of you not just you, not just your wife both of you know that.

Speaker 2: 1:09:49

You know that. You know that you're supposed to stay. Yep, yeah, holy was the prophetic word.

Speaker 1: 1:09:57

Just I see mount pleasant like. Was there any context?

Speaker 3: 1:10:00

it was so the whole weekend was about kind of like what's the spiritual term? Like, um, you know, igniting or like just just training those passions, or like the, the gifts and those things, so like we literally had a workshop on words of prophecy and, uh, words of of knowledge and prophecy, and so we're, we're there practicing this thing. And one of the guys that actually was one of the people that invited us to come to this conference and while we were kind of connected through it, robbie dawkins I don't know if you guys ever heard of him just amazing, um, pastor, evangelist, um kind of guy, but um, he's kind of in with that todd white crew and like all just the intense like like just seeing crazy healings all the time and all this and so yeah

Speaker 3: 1:10:44

um, but while we're at this conference, this guy is doing this workshop on words of prophecy and as we're going around the circle he says I, I see over you trevor, like a football football jersey in mount pleasant. He just dropped it and we were just practicing, we were just like going through it. But. But I held onto it because the moment he said Mount Pleasant in South Carolina, I knew we'd been talking about it for years, like that's where we want to. It would be the dream to end up in Charleston, you know, and weird that it ended up being Mount Pleasant, which was where the church was established. And so, yeah, it was pretty crazy established. And so, yeah, it was pretty crazy, it was crazy to turn it down, but it felt so right. It felt so right and hearing Steve speak, it was funny. So Steve has since stepped down as senior pastor, which we've had that experience before.

Speaker 3: 1:11:34

I mentioned another church, but I didn't feel that way here at all.

Speaker 3: 1:11:39

I felt like if he is stepping down to do something the Lord's calling him to, I feel so confident in the disciples he's created to lead this church and so there's no question in following, like Pastor Ben, and just knowing he's going to be just as effective of a leader as Steve was, if not more. And I don't know, just something felt so right Just hearing him say all that, hearing him just be again so transparent and honest, as effective of a leader as Steve was, if not more, and I don't know. Just something felt so right Just hearing him say all that, hearing him just be again so transparent and honest and just be like, yeah, that sounds like the best. Actually, I didn't finish. Before we got off the phone, steve said I don't think this is a good option for you guys. He was straight enough to say it and I was glad he was, because I was kind of hoping he wasn't gonna skirt around the bush and be like well, you know the lord could be saying this and he could be saying that I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:12:23

He was just like nope, I don't think it's right. So that was honestly what you know like kind of ticked it in our brain.

Speaker 3: 1:12:30

That's what we got off the phone and we're like, yeah, we're gonna trust steve and we're gonna like believe that this is not right for us right now. Um confirmed again in so many ways that that spring was my best spring in real estate ever. Um blew out all my expectations. Um just pouring out like just crazy overflow of giftings in our life and um you know, and and it's just it. Yeah, getting more and more connected with Antioch just felt like we were more and more home and like it was so natural. I think that later that spring was when I first started doing worship and any and got connected doing that, but it was really like a very reserved role and just like let me be in the background, let me just like help out um and and um just be a part, which is so good. Getting to know all the teams, getting to actually like know you guys, was the best part. Sorry, I'm looking at Warren.

Speaker 3: 1:13:22

There's nobody else looking at us To know you guys and know you're actually 100% the people I thought you were on the stage and you actually genuinely want to maybe Are we talking about the same Warren 95%? No, no, just that they were all going after Jesus so hard and they wanted that in their worship and it was just the best. It was the best worship experience I've ever had in my life, knowing that I'm surrounded by people that want this experience with God over any kind of performance.

Speaker 1: 1:13:58

So let me ask you this what's different this time around? God's stripped away this identity of worship. Is like you are what you do. I see this thread a lot in people's lives. It's like God has to strip us of these false senses of self like I am what I do, or I am what I produce. That's a common one. Especially if you're in a business community, your value is in what you bring to the table or produce. So God strips this out of you. You finally get comfortable being like nah.

Speaker 1: 1:14:34

I don't wanna do worship.

Speaker 3: 1:14:35

I'm not gonna do it.

Speaker 1: 1:14:37

And then here it comes again. Yeah, making it up again, so like, but like, what's different now?

Speaker 3: 1:14:42

yeah, I think one of the biggest differences I've noted is I don't feel pressure to match any expectations. Like I do, I care for quality and like do I care for quality and like do I care for growth and doing things the best that we can do, absolutely. But that's not the condition that makes worship good for me anymore. Like, the condition is definitely a heart condition. That like makes it really real to me and if I'm yeah, if I'm pastoring anyone in that position, then I want to pastor them towards that heart position, not that like skill position. Like I want to pastor them towards knowing that their heart is completely yielded to God when they're leading him in worship, that they're actually pursuing him and not pursuing fame or their own glory or their own, you know, like people complimenting them and like making them feel better about themselves. It's like. So I feel like I can easily step into a culture here where that is already kind of being done and formed and I feel like I can assume that identity and that role, that I don't have to meet expectations. I can actually just pursue Jesus and that's the best thing I can do and that's probably the biggest thing. Ironically, I mean, we just did the church movement. Like we moved from more established facility to a new facility and I found myself picking up all this like gear knowledge again and doing all that. But I was a gearhead Like I. I had all the stuff and I had to sell it all because we just started a real estate business after leaving that. And I sell, I sold all of my beautiful, wonderful guitars and amps and pedals and everything that I idolized completely and thought I was the coolest stuff ever, sold it all because we needed the money and going back into it now I'm like man, all of that stuff is so unnecessary for true worship to happen.

Speaker 3: 1:16:50

Even setting up for the new facility, we were all thinking how can we do this the simplest way possible? How can we do this without more variables and stuff like that? Yeah, there's an opportunity to do stuff better, which is good, but it was also. How do we not just replicate what we have at antioch, where we were, but how do we make it as simple as possible so that when we get in this new facility it's like just copy paste, we can just keep on rolling with like where the spirit was taking us before? So that was nice, just kind of letting go of my idolatry, I guess, towards everybody in worship is is even just looking at these mics right here. It's like, it's like this is like where, where, like musicians really get hyper, like focused um on. If I have the best gear, I can sound the best and I can do the best and all these kind of things.

Speaker 3: 1:17:39

And just like man, it feels so good to like not feel that burden or not feel that that unhealthy absorption and just be like I could just let go and I could do with what we have and be okay and be content, um, and and lead others in that. Uh too, because I think that's we have a lot of musicians that are starting out that don't have a lot of that stuff, and it's like that's okay. Like you, you got this, like I care way more about your heart than I do about you having the right amp. A long time ago, I wouldn't have said that.

Speaker 3: 1:18:12

I definitely would not have said that today I can confidently man so cool to hear today I can confidently man, so cool to hear your journey.

Speaker 2: 1:18:23

Yeah, thank you for thanks for coming on, man.

Speaker 3: 1:18:27

Yeah, thank you guys for doing this. I mean, it's amazing. I told both of you like Heather and I listened to this. Um frequently we love hearing the journeys of people in our church that we've never heard before. Um, I feel like this is just such a unique way to frequently we love hearing the journeys of people in our church that we've never heard before. I feel like this is just such a unique way to share testimonies and I love hearing so many of the people that I don't know that don't go to our church. Hearing their testimonies is like lighting me up, like, oh my goodness, like look at what the lord is capable of. Like look at how far he goes. I know my experience and maybe the people close around me, but hearing these experiences it just sets you on fire. Like, how can you not be lit up by other people's testimonies?

Speaker 2: 1:19:06

It really does. Yeah, it does. What did you say, Chris? You, Chris, said something like it's like having a front row seat to what God is doing.

Speaker 1: 1:19:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:19:15

And it's so, so cool. I always leave every interview just being like, wow, new perspective, new journey. That the Lord has literally had his hand on this person yeah, yeah, we feel very privileged to get it in person. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:19:36

Right, because anybody can listen afterwards to the, to the recording, but three of us get to kind of be here in person get to cry with people and kind of hear it firsthand. It's really, it's really fun it's been a cool journey. I'm thankful. We appreciate you guys, you coming on really thank you guys for having me.

Speaker 3: 1:19:55

I'm honored seriously. After listening to it so many times, I was like I don't know if I match up. I don't think I'm good enough to be on that.

Speaker 2: 1:20:07

You went down enough rabbit trails. My grandfather always said that the deepest rabbit trail leads to the juiciest carrot. I think he'd be proud.

Speaker 3: 1:20:16

I needed you to say that one in this episode. I really did.

Speaker 1: 1:20:22

That was a last minute Hail Mary, just for the win. That was it. That was the last Get it in there, so good. Thanks, Trevor.

Speaker 2: 1:20:33

Yeah, thank you guys, you, you, thank you.