Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everyone, this is Chris. I'm Ryan From the Uncommon Path podcast. The scripture, Revelation 12 11 says and they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.

Speaker 2: 0:11

Our hope is that as you listen, you will be encouraged in the Lord. This podcast was created as an avenue to share people's raw and unfiltered journeys with him. We hope this brings breakthrough and intimacy with Jesus through their testimony of what God is doing through their lives. Today we have Gary Mayer. And Gary worked for AFI PFG, which is a food distributing company. He worked there for 37 years. He retired and left a route of seven and a half million dollars a year in sales for that company and was number one salesman for several years, right he has the watch.

Speaker 2: 1:15

He's pointing to his watch. The reason why I'm introducing Gary like this is because he is a very, very humble man and he probably wouldn't brag on himself, so I thought it was worth sharing. He's 73,. He's been married for 45 years, has two kids, three grandkids. Is from what part of New Jersey, Gary?

Speaker 3: 1:43

I grew up in Springfield, new Jersey, springfield, okay. Born in Newark, new Jersey. You want me to start?

Speaker 2: 1:55

So, yeah, yeah, we can go from there, as you've heard before me, and Chris will just kind of ask questions as we go along. In a nutshell, we want kind of your path with the Lord, how it started, what God was to you as a kid and in your adolescence, what you thought of God when your faith became your own and any miracles along the journey of in the past to meeting the Lord and then kind of getting married and then what God has in your life now and what you know, what he's got in the horizon for you. And so, yeah, if you want to go ahead and share kind of the beginning, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 2:40

Well, like I said, I was born in Newark, new Jersey, and my mom and dad moved to the suburbs when I was four, lived in a town called Springfield. My upbringing was we're Jewish. A lot of people referred to Springfield as Springfeld, referred to Springfield as Springfeld, and the name of the street that we lived on was Garden Oval, and people used to call it Bagel Bend. I would say that 90% of the people in the neighborhood were all Jewish. So, you know, I grew up a nice Jewish boy. Parents sent me to Hebrew school when I was a kid, was bar mitzvahed when I was 13. So I never had anything to do with Jesus Christ. Growing up, obviously, you know, growing up a Jew, the name of Jesus was like nails on a blackboard. It was just something that you didn't talk about. Jesus was certainly not the Son of God and like that. That's you know, my growing up. Um, I graduated high school in 1969. And uh, um, that summer, uh, in August, I went to uh Woodstock with uh Anthony Ciccone and his Volkswagen bug and uh Bug, and we were hippies. I grew up, you know, in the late 60s, early 70s, and started smoking weed when I was probably, well, a junior in high school and I loved it From the first time I got high. I absolutely loved it.

Speaker 3: 4:47

Fast forward, after Woodstock I went to the University of Miami in Florida. The first thing I did when I went down there I wanted to see if my roommate got high. I met, met Steven Nissenbaum in our dorm room and as soon as I saw him I knew that he got high. He had this big afro and first thing we did together we got high and it was like that the first year A lot of smoking. You know, I did do schoolwork, but that wasn't the most important thing for me. Um, after our first year, uh, stephen lived in an apartment with the guy and I lived with another guy in another apartment and, uh, about midway through our second semester, right before Christmas break, stephen came up to me and he said hey, gary, I heard about this place in Jamaica and we could get all the all the weed we want for free. And I said, stephen, I'm down, I will I. You know, I didn't even give it a second thought. I said absolutely.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Was. That was was the way you're wired. Was that difficult for you normally or was that uncharacteristic for you?

Speaker 3: 6:13

It was very uncharacteristic of me. I'm a very cautious guy, I don't like to take chances and for some reason, ryan, I didn't even think twice. I just yes, I'm going. So we bought our airline tickets and right before Christmas break is when we were going to go down there and these were the directions that we had. These were the directions that we had. We would fly into Kingston, take a cab to a town called Papine and ask a small boy for brother love. That's the directions that we had.

Speaker 2: 6:58

That's the only directions you had.

Speaker 3: 7:00

That's the only directions that we had to find this place and we flew in in. We stayed the night. Next morning we got up, got in a cab, told the guy we wanted to go to, papin took us to this little town. We got out we saw a boy walking and we said take us to brother love. And he said yes, mon, and he proceeded to bring us up into the mountains of Jamaica. I mean, we just hiked up this mountain and I remember turning to Stephen and saying if anything happens to us, stephen, no one in the world is ever going to find us. It was that remote world is ever going to find us. It was that remote.

Speaker 3: 7:48

We got up to the top of the mountain and we were approached by a group of older men, long bearded black men, and they proceeded to bring us into a building. We learned it was their sanctuary and we're sitting around in the building and they brought out a chillum pipe, filled it with they call it ganja passed it around to all of us and you know, we're getting high. And they said to Stephen and I do, you know what we're doing? And we said yeah, we're getting high, we're smoking weed. And they said no, no, this is a holy sacrament. And Stephen and I looked at each other. It's like, what is it? What is he talking about? And he proceeded to hand me a Bible. I think it was the first time that I ever held a Bible in my hand in my life. And he opened up to Revelation, the 22nd chapter, and he had me read and it said in Revelation 22, it says the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal. It says every month, and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of nations. And he told us that these are the leaves. The ganja tree is what we're smoking and the leaves of the tree are for the healing of nations.

Speaker 3: 9:39

And Stephen and I are hippies and we just looked at each other, just like, and Stephen and I are hippies and we just looked at each other as like, you know, wow, this is how God's going to bring peace to the earth through the weed, through the ganja. Because, like, when you get high, you have this tranquil feeling, you have this very peaceful feeling and it just like, it resonated with us and we're like, like, hmm, this is interesting. And then they turn to the book of isaiah, the second chapter, and that says. It says in the last days, the mountain of the house of the lord will be established on the tops of the mountains and it'll be raised above the hills and the nations will stream into it. And many people will say, come, let us go to the mountain of the lord, to the house of the god of jacob, and he will teach us his ways and we'll walk in his paths and we're up on the top of a mountain and we were like, wow, you know, god, you know, is this a calling from God Almighty? I mean, this is.

Speaker 3: 10:50

It was just mind blowing for us. So we were there for a few days and, um, um, I will say this one evening, and I really can't explain it, but I just felt the presence of God so strongly that I remember not wanting to go to sleep because it was just something like I'd never felt, just a closeness, a warmth, something like I'd never felt just a closeness, a warmth, and my mind was just blown and, like Stephen and I, we decided that we were going to quit school. And this is what we're going to do with our lives. We're going to live with these people and we're going to spread the gospel and Jesus is the Lord, and this is what we're going to do. So we flew back.

Speaker 2: 11:52

Gary real quick when you said you felt like the presence of God. This was a feeling you hadn't felt before. That went beyond like feeling high, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 12:04

Ryan. I mean I had been high. You know, like I said, I started smoking weed when I was, you know, a junior in high school.

Speaker 1: 12:12

And.

Speaker 3: 12:12

I never had this kind of feeling before. It was, you know, like there's some things that happen in your life that you just remember. Yeah, that evening, that night was just indescribable. Wow, just you know, just a very strong presence of God. So after about a week of indoctrination, you know, the brothers told us what we could and couldn't do, what we could eat, what we couldn't eat. You know we couldn't have sexual relations with women. We couldn't cut what we could eat, what we couldn't eat, um, you know we couldn't have sexual relations with women. Uh, we had a. We couldn't cut our hair. Based on it says in leviticus uh 19, verse 27 uh, you should not cut the corners of your head, nor more, nor more the corners of your beard, which is why the hesedim don't cut their hair. Like you know, they have those curls there. It's from that that and so, like we were hippies, anyway, we didn't cut our hair. So that was no big deal.

Speaker 3: 13:12

Um so, uh, we went back to Miami and, uh, steven and I were in downtown Miami and we were sitting on a curb in downtown Miami and we're like, what are we gonna do now? You know, we got to get a Bible. So we got up, turned around and what's right behind us? It was a Bible store. I mean right behind us and like our hearts just started like just beating real fast. You know, like we felt like god was just leading us. A very strong we were.

Speaker 3: 13:55

You know, it says in the book of proverbs the beginning of wisdom is fear of the lord. I had the fear of the lord. I was afraid to do anything that would upset God. I just wanted to, you know, please him. So anyway, stephen and I, we flew back to our homes to tell our families about what we found in Jamaica. Stephen went to Massachusetts, I went to New Jersey and we went to our family's house and proclaimed our rebirth and that the kingdom of God was going to be built in the mountains of Jamaica and the ganja is the way through which you get the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3: 14:41

And this is what God called us to get the Holy Spirit. And this is what God called us to. So, to your Jewish, to, you know, coax Gary back to reality. But that didn't work. After about, you know, about five months of like reading, reading the Bible every day, basically the Psalms. The brothers told us to just stay in the Psalms and I read the Psalms all day long. And after about five months, stephen and I met up and we went back to Jamaica and when we got down there we found that there was like maybe 15, 20 other white brethren that had found their way to this place like we did, other white brethren that had found their way to this place like we did. And what we did was we started a I guess you'd call it a commune in Fort Myers, florida, and when we weren't in Jamaica, we were together at this commune in Fort Myers commune in Fort Myers, and we would, you know, smoke ganja, read the word of God and um, like that and um.

Speaker 3: 16:20

One time, when Stephen and I were at the camp in, uh, in Fort Myers, some brothers came back and, uh, the brothers in Jamaica said they wanted to see me and Stephen and a couple of others, the white brothers, and so we flew down and when we got down there, the brothers told us that the time to begin building the kingdom of God is now and it's going to take money of God is now and it's going to take money. So what they proposed was that we would begin to bring the ganja from Jamaica to the United States and sell it and bring the money back down to Jamaica, and this is pre-911. So what they had us do was smuggle the ganja through airports and what they did was they compacted it into bricks, very solid bricks, and they put it in cigar boxes and cigarette boxes that we put in our luggage, you know, sealed it up with a hot iron, sealed it up and and put it on our bodies, you know, in just covering, you know, our bodies front and back with these bricks. And, uh, I tell you, I did it, um, successfully through, uh, my first trip was through Baltimore international and uh, you know it would be a few of us on each trip and went through Baltimore. And the next trip I went through Philadelphia and through Kennedy, and you know, we sold the ganja and I would bring the money and lay it at their feet. I thought these were holy men and you know I only took money for my expenses, you know my airline tickets and my food, but I brought all the money down that I made and I thought that I was building the kingdom of God. If you knew Gary Mayer, you know that I would never in a million years have the nerve to do what I was doing with these men. I thought that I was doing God's will.

Speaker 3: 18:40

After about a year of doing that, the brothers decided they wanted to expand up into Canada and the first trip that was done in Canada. Stephen was on the first trip and he and a couple of other guys were arrested in Toronto at Toronto International, and they were brought to the county jail. And I was the next trip to go myself and this woman that I thought I was, she was like my girlfriend. I guess you'd call her. We were on the next trip. I guess you'd call her, we were on the next trip. And you know, I knew that those guys were in jail and I just said you know God, whatever you want, whatever you want, I'm your man. You know, I just wanted to serve them and we went through and we were also arrested and she was taken to the woman's prison woman's jail and I was with those guys in Brampton County Jail in Toronto and we're awaiting trial in Toronto and we're awaiting trial.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Stephen's mom and dad got him a really sharp lawyer and they had him committed to this place and once Stephen was in there he just walked out the door and he got across the border and he was free.

Speaker 3: 20:28

And he was free. The other guys that were in there had their parents. You know our lawyer called their parents and they had them bailed out. I was the only one left and after about I don't know a few months whatever it was waiting trial, my lawyer said Gary, we got to let your parents know where you are. The money's run out. I got to get paid and we got to let your family know where you are. So I gave him the information and my parents flew up to Canada. My parents flew up to Canada and the hardest conversation I ever had with my father behind the glass because behind the glass, you know my father said to me Gary, I will get you out, but you got to promise me that you're going to, you're not going to skip, because I can't afford to lose $20,000. And I said dad, don't get me out, because if I get out I'm never coming back.

Speaker 1: 21:36

So I went to trial myself and well, Gary, what did you mean by I'm never coming back?

Speaker 3: 21:42

I'm never coming back. I'm going across the border. I'm never coming back. I'm going across the border. I'm not coming back to jail. I was Chris. I was facing seven years. That was the mandatory sentence for importation of drugs and I was told that by my lawyer. I knew it was seven years if I got convicted so I went to trial.

Speaker 2: 22:08

So you're saying that you, you wanted to stay and stay through the sentence instead of go back to your parents no, I did not want my father to lose twenty thousand dollars that he didn't have gotcha my, my parents didn't have a lot of money? Was it because you knew you would just go back into this lifestyle and you knew it would kind of be a waste? Or what was the motive behind that?

Speaker 3: 22:37

No, no, no. The motive was strictly that I did not want my father to lose $20,000.

Speaker 3: 22:43

I knew where I was going. When I got out I was going right back to Jamaica. But you know it was for love of my father that I couldn't do that to him, yeah, so, uh, we went to trial and our defense was the ganja is a holy sacrament. And, um, the ganja is a holy sacrament. And you know, my lawyer said that you know he's duped and you know the judge wanted no part of it. And he hit the gavel, whatever you hit, and he said seven years. We sentence you to seven years in a federal penitentiary. And I came back to the county jail that day and, along with the other guys that had been convicted, they put us in a van and they shackled my hands and my feet on my feet and they took us.

Speaker 1: 23:55

They took me to Kingston Penitentiary and walked into their kingston jamaica.

Speaker 3: 23:57

No, no, this is Kingston Penitentiary in Ontario, canada. To Kingston's okay, kingston.

Speaker 1: 24:04

Jamaica was where I flew into Kingston, Ontario was where the Okay, so you're about to go to Canadian federal prison? Yes, sir.

Speaker 3: 24:12

Yes, sir, yeah, in Canada, okay, gotcha. So I remember going in and they shaved my head, put me into a shower, gave me my prison garb, gave me my bedding and walked me into my cell, closed the cell door and I remember looking at the ceiling in the cell, sentenced to seven years, and I was like, oh, oh, god, almighty, look where I am. I was only, I only wanted to serve you. Look where I am. How, how old were you? I was, uh, about 21, something like that, 21, 22, wow, um, and uh, I will say this you know, there's some bad dudes in in federal penitentiary and uh, um, there was this one guy who took me like, kind of like, under his wing and uh, uh one, uh one.

Speaker 3: 25:27

One morning, uh, they locked us. You know, we were in lockdown and they nobody could leave their cells and it turned out that this guy, who was quote, watching over me, was murdered. Somebody murdered him and, uh, I know that that was god's protection, like this guy had ulterior motives for me and he was taken out. Um, wow, so the long you know, here we go, um, how, how?

Speaker 2: 26:04

did real quick. How? Where was your mind in regards to God at this time? Were you still under the pretense that you needed to get back to Jamaica to serve the brotherhood, that they were still apostles, or were you starting to think okay, was I really duped? Was I? It was this kind?

Speaker 3: 26:26

of fake like oh no, oh no, no, no, I I was. You know I was completely, you know, on board with. You know what I was doing, that you know I was building the kingdom of god, um, and you know I was doing god's will. The fact that I was in prison, you know, that's just the way it goes, man. I mean, you know you take your chances and you know the cards fall where they may, you know, and I got popped Um, but I was still on board and you know I still had I never lost my love for God, um. So a year goes by and, uh, I'm doing my time and uh, one evening I was in my cell and I had a radio in my cell and I started flicking the dials and I came across a broadcast and it was a man named Herbert W Armstrong and the name of the broadcast was A World Tomorrow. And Herbert W Armstrong was heavily into Bible prophecy and the second coming of Christ and it was fascinating to me. I never heard stuff like that from the brothers other than the kingdom of God which I thought I was building in Jamaica. But this guy starts preaching about you know Jesus really coming back to this earth. So I sent away for the literature. I'm in prison. I send away for literature and I start studying the Bible, really for the first time in my life, like digging into Bible prophecy, and I'm learning a lot. You know, just a lot of Bible prophecy, the book of Daniel, the book of Zechariah. I mean, I had never Isaiah, I never read any of this stuff before. So you know, I was really learning a lot of scripture.

Speaker 3: 28:35

So after two and a half years of the seven-year sentence, they deported me back to the United States and you know, they put me on a bus, crossed the border, got into Manhattan and I found my way back to my mother and father's house in New Jersey and when I got back there I told my mom and dad that I got to go back down to Jamaica. My mom and dad, that I got to go back down to Jamaica and you know, just broke my mother's heart. You know, I know, I know I did, but I thought this is what I was supposed to be doing in my life. So I flew back down to Jamaica and I wanted to tell them about, you know, what I had learned from the literature that I had been reading and, you know, studying in Scripture, and started smoking the ganja with them and, after not smoking for so many years, something happened to me. I guess it was an overdose of THC, call it what you may. I just started hallucinating and I was not in reality, just started, like I said, imagining things, hallucinating, and the brothers told me Gary, we don't want you here anymore, you have to leave. So they basically told me to go and I got back to Miami and, like I said, I was not in my right mind and I started imagining things.

Speaker 3: 30:30

I remember, uh, breaking into the customs area in Miami at Miami international airport, hallucinating that this girl that I was with was in the customs area, and I got arrested again and the police there, they they realized that I was not in my right mind. They said do you have any family in Miami? I said, yeah, I have an uncle. I gave him his name, so he came and got me out. They let me out on his recognizance. He took me to his home and called my mom and dad and said I'm going to put Gary on a plane and send him back. There's something wrong with Gary.

Speaker 3: 31:12

So I got back to New Jersey and my mother and my father met me at the airport and they took me to a mental state hospital. It was called Marlboro State Psychiatric Hospital. It was called Marlboro State Psychiatric Hospital and it was a nasty place, really horrible. They just started shooting me up with Thorazine and just different drugs to try to bring me down and I told my mom and dad that if you don't get me out of this place these people are going to kill me. So they had me transferred to another place called Carrier Clinic and at Carrier Clinic they started giving me electric shock treatments and they gave me at least three electric shock treatments and basically to just bring me down from where I was.

Speaker 3: 32:10

And after I don't know a couple of months, whatever it was in that psychiatric hospital, I got out and I knew that Jamaica was over. But I knew that God was real. I just knew he was real. I knew Jesus was real. And at that time I'm living in my mom and dad's house and my cousin, who had just married an Israeli girl, she was going back to Israel and she said to me Gary, I'm going back to Israel, why don't you come with me and you could work on the kibbutz and it'll just, it'll be good for you. It's like a, it's like a farm, and so I went and I was there for six months growing cotton, working in the orchards you know, it's just doing different stuff and it was just a really good time of healing for my mind.

Speaker 3: 33:14

And we were very close to Jerusalem, about an hour outside of Jerusalem, and I remember I would take the bus or hitchhike into Jerusalem and I would go to the wall on the wall and I would overlook, which would overlook the Mount of Olives. And from my study of Scripture, I knew that in Zechariah 14, that that was where Jesus is going to return to the earth. His feet will touch the Mount of Olives and the mountain's going to split in two, and I knew, I knew from what I read, that you know that was where Jesus is coming back to. So, anyway, after about the six months that I spent there, um, I felt good. I came back to the United States and, uh, living with my mom and dad, and I remembered the literature that I had gotten when I was in prison and I wanted to see if there was a church in the area where my mom and dad lived. I didn't think there was, but I figured I'd give it a try. I called an 800 number and they said, yeah, we have a congregation that meets at the Fox Theater in Union, new Jersey. I knew exactly where the Fox Theater was. I'd been there in my life and they met every Saturday morning.

Speaker 3: 34:43

So I started going there, going there, and the church was, um, it was a legalistic church. They believed that we had to keep. You have to keep the old testament. Laws like uh, not you know, dietary laws, keeping the holy days like the Day of Atonement, yom Kippur, feast of Tabernacles, rosh Hashanah, all these holy days that I grew up with being a Jew, but they also talked about Jesus and they talked about prophecy and it was just like a hand in a glove for me. It was perfect. I, I could, I could, I could keep my jewishness, but I could also learn about jesus and, uh, the pastor there, uh, his name was Richard Frankel. He took me under his wing and he was just a beautiful man for me, and the sermons that he would give a lot of them were about prophecy and it was just perfect for me. So there I was, I was going there and I would go every Sabbath. They were a Sabbath-keeping church and I decided I wanted to try to go back to school.

Speaker 3: 36:23

So I started attending Kane College and I started going out with a girl that, oh, and I was working at AFI Food Service, loading trucks at night and going to school during the day, and I started going out with a girl that worked there and we got kind of serious, kind of, and she developed cancer and I helped her through it as much as I could, through the chemo and the whole thing, and in about six months or so she died. I saw that whole thing, what cancer could do, and Mr Frankel did her funeral for me. And so I continued, you know, going to school at Kane and uh, I had this abnormal psychology class in the morning and uh, there was this girl who sat in the front row and uh, I always sat in the back row and uh, I wanted to meet her. Uh, I love, I think, I think, I think I, I, I was attracted to her by her laugh more than anything. And then when I saw her, that was a whole different thing and because it was so close to Anna's death, I didn't ask her out.

Speaker 3: 38:01

And finally, the last day of the semester came around and I knew if I didn't ask her out that day, I'd probably never see this woman again. So I waited outside the class and she came out with a couple of her girlfriends and I tried to talk to her, but I got embarrassed. So I just left, went back to my crappy basement apartment and I'm looking at the ceiling feeling sorry for myself, and a thought came into my mind. I know now. That thought was from the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3: 38:35

Gary, go buy flowers and bring it to Anna's grave. So I get in my car, I'm driving around town I don't know where a florist is. I'm driving around and I spot a florist. I go in, I buy my flowers, I turn around to leave, and who's behind me? That girl that I wanted to ask out. And it's a big world out there, and for her to be right behind me at that moment, it's a big world out there and for her to be right behind me at that moment, it's a God thing. And that girl has been my wife for 45 years.

Speaker 3: 39:22

Wow you know, it's like you know. A lot of people say that you know, oh, god gave me my wife. But I know in my heart that God did give me my wife and what did you do with the flowers? I didn't. You know that's a good question.

Speaker 1: 39:44

I don't know what I did with the flowers?

Speaker 3: 39:47

I don't know, I don't remember. I was just so freaked out, man, I mean, and like you know my wife well, peggy, she had no idea what had just happened. She didn't know me from adam and my heart was just like bursting with what happened. And she's like she looks at me like I had three heads.

Speaker 3: 40:08

You know who is this guy and like, and it's funny because I did ask her out and she stood me up three times wow, really me up three times and uh, and then she finally called me and she said listen, I, you know, I I'm sorry, you know, like you know, like you know, why don't we meet for a beer?

Speaker 3: 40:30

And there we go, man, it's like so anyway, so yeah, after a while, after, you know, peggy and I started going out, we, we became serious, we got married, mr Frankel. Frankel married us and, uh, a year later he baptized us as well. He baptized us in dora, during kroposinski's pool in bayonne, new jersey. This jew boy baptized um. So, uh, peggy, start she. We both continued school.

Speaker 2: 41:09

Real quick, Gary. So being married, following Jesus now, what was your relationship with your parents like at this time?

Speaker 3: 41:23

My parents. They understood that Gary Mayer believes that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. They did not believe that by any stretch of the imagination. But you know my parents loved me and they just couldn't understand. You know that Jesus is the Messiah.

Speaker 3: 41:55

But, you know, I had a good relationship with my mother and my father. Like I said, man, I know I broke my mother's heart when I, you know, did what I did, but I didn't do it maliciously, I did it because I thought that's what God wanted me to do. But my relationship with my mother and my father, it never changed. They always loved me. Hmm, um so, um, what I was going to say is Peggy became, she started waitressing at night and I kept loading trucks at the warehouse. And Mr Frankel, after we were married, he said, gary, you know what you're doing is not natural. You're up all hours of the night. You know you need to get a day job. So I went to the owner of the company His name was Alan Spinner, who was in charge of the sales force, and I asked him Alan, could I be a salesman for your company? And he said, gary, if you want to be a salesman, you got to go to Fairleigh, dickinson University and take an aptitude test. If you have an aptitude for sales, I'll give you a shot. So I went to Fairleigh, I took the test and the psychologist his name was David Lacazio, dr David Lacazio. He came back and I remember being in the office with Alan, david and myself. And David Lacazio says to Alan do not let this guy be a salesman for you. He has absolutely no aptitude for sales. His aptitude is either the ministry or social work. That's his aptitude. So I basically begged him. I said, alan, what do you got to lose? Give me a shot. He said all right, gary, I'll give you a shot.

Speaker 3: 43:43

So I tried to sell. I remember my first sales call, sitting in the parking lot with my book, with my product list, and I put my head down and I'm like Jesus, god, please help me. I don't know what I'm doing. I need your help. And I went in the back door of this restaurant. I knew where the back door was. The dumpster was there. That's, you walk in there, you bump into the chef, so that's where you go. So I went in, made a spiel to this guy. I I didn't sell them a toothpick, I didn't sell them anything. But I did my first sales call.

Speaker 3: 44:31

I got that under my belt and after that, did it again, did it again and I started making a couple of sales. This after I mean I don't know how long it was after I started selling. The way it works is when you're commissioned salesman, they cut your salary and after a while you're strictly all commission, you have no salary. And after a year that's where I was and uh, peggy became pregnant with our first child, josh, and uh, I mean I gotta, I gotta, I gotta produce, produce, because if I don't make money this boat is sinking. So one of the guys that was at our church he knew my predicament and his name was Bill Dutton. He took me aside one day and he said Gary, you want to be successful in sales. I said, yeah, bill, I do. He said make God your partner. And it hit me like a ton of bricks Make God your partner. That makes so much sense. And I promise you that from that day forward not one day that I left in the morning to do this sales thing that I didn't get on my knees and say God Almighty, if you don't help me, I cannot do this. I need your help and listen, it's and it's. You got to, you got. I'm the one. I knew that. I'm the one that's got to go and knock on the door I am. I'm the one that's got to like make this thing happen.

Speaker 3: 46:23

But God Almighty started to bless me and I start making sales and I remember every day or every month I would write on my blotter at my home where I did all my preparation for my sales. I wrote a little phrase and it said and it's how I live my life. I said I do my part and the rest is up to him. And he just started to bless me. And the thing about it is like being in sales, it's all commission, you know. I mean, you know, if you don't do it, you don't do it, you don't, your family doesn't eat. I mean, if you don't do it, you don't do it, your family doesn't eat.

Speaker 3: 47:15

And being in the Worldwide Church of God this is another thing. Like I said, we kept all the old covenant rules and one of those rules was tithing. So I had to tithe 10% of what I made and we also had to put away another 10% to attend the Feast of Tabernacles. Because we were commanded to go to the Feast of Tabernacles and the Worldwide Church of God had feast sites all over the world and you had to take your family to a feast site and you needed money to do that. So, boom, I'm working. I'm living on 80% of what I'm making and I don't even know what I'm going to make every week.

Speaker 3: 47:57

It depended on what my sales were and you know like I, like Ryan said, I was in sales for 37 years and every week of every month of every year, I God provided for my family and myself. We always had enough. I always started every week with zero and by the end of the week we had enough to live on. And it wasn't just the three of us my daughter Allison came along as well, so there's four of us that I had to provide for, and God was always so faithful. So, like I told Ryan last time we spoke, that you know a lot of people when they hear my story, they think, oh man, you know Jamaica and smuggling and prison, the whole thing. But that's not the story. That's not what the story is about. The story is how God Almighty, my Lord Jesus, provided for my family and myself for 37 years. I mean that's the miracle Because, remember, I had no aptitude for sales and everything that I was accomplishing was through the grace of my Lord Jesus. And you know it's funny, lord Jesus. And you know it's funny.

Speaker 3: 49:46

Years later, when my mom was, my mom had dementia and she was in. She was in an assisted living place and I would go visit her when I was living down in North Carolina. I'd ride up there and visit her and I would talk to her about Jesus. I would try to talk to her about Jesus. And, mom, you remember like all the tough times that I put you and Dad through. You know and you know all that I put you through. But you saw how God provided me with a wife and then children and how he always took care of us for all those years. I said that was jesus that did that for us. I said, mom, do you understand that? Do you believe what I'm trying to tell you? And she would just look at me and smile and she would say, gary, whatever you believe, I believe. And uh, so I think I don't know. I think my mom kind of believed in jesus a little bit anyway, towards the end of her life. Um, so my family. Years went on.

Speaker 3: 51:03

We were in the Worldwide Church of God for 17 years, kept all the Old Testament laws, all the holy days, sabbath days, dietary laws, all that stuff, and Herbert W Armstrong died. And Herbert W Armstrong died and the new leadership of the church realized that we were in error and that Herbert W Armstrong was wrong, that we are not under the old covenant laws, that we're now under the new covenant of grace and we did no longer have to keep the Old Testament laws and they started to preach grace. And this was a major turning point in my walk. The pastor at that time his name, was John Adams. He preached one sermon about Ephesians 2, 6 through 8, where it says it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves, it's a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

Speaker 3: 52:23

And up to that point my whole life as a Christian was works. Do this, do that, you know, whatever Smuggle, ganja, just you know, do things to try to make God love me. And when I understood what grace was, that it was not a matter of what I could do for God, but what God has done for me everything changed the way I looked and thought of Jesus. It just all changed. I always knew that Jesus died for me, but I never really knew in my heart what he did for me. And now it was a turning point. Now it was like it was a turning point and my relationship with Jesus just took off and everything just changed. And I started listening. I found a Christian broadcast in New Jersey. It was called the Bridge. Christian broadcast in New Jersey. It was called the Bridge and there was a guy who had a show nine o'clock in the morning. His name was Chuck Smith, it was the Word for Today and this guy would go through the Bible every chapter, verse by verse. And I started learning from this man about grace and my Christian walk just took off.

Speaker 3: 54:04

So next part of it my children are grown. Both got went to college. Josh graduated college, became a sales rep, which I never wanted him to be, never wanted to be in sales. But he became a sales rep for canon um and uh started doing really well at it and uh, his boss uh told him josh, if you uh ever choose to come down to north Carolina, I will make sure that I get you into management down there. So he and his wife moved down to North Carolina and a year after that, whatever it was, they came and told Peggy and I that we were going to be grandparents and we decided that we wanted to see our grandchildren grow up. So we were going to sell our home in New Jersey and move down to North Carolina, and that's how we came to come down here. What year was that? 2012, I believe. Okay.

Speaker 2: 55:19

And did you? Had you retired already from sales or had you chosen at that point to retire?

Speaker 3: 55:26

No, when that happened, when we found out we're going to be grandparents, I went to the and I knew that I was going to be retiring, that I was going to leave. I went to the president of PFG, who bought AFI, and I told him I was going to be leaving and moving down to North Carolina I wanted to see my grandchildren grow up, and he looked at me I'm not kidding you with tears in his eyes Because I mean I had been a staple in the company for 37 years. I I mean everybody kind of looked up to Gary.

Speaker 1: 56:02

Mayer, that's a long time.

Speaker 3: 56:04

It's a long time at one company there's a long time and uh, you know, chris, you know, just to back up, there was they. They had a big sales force at PFG, afi and uh, fgafi and uh I, they, they every we have. We have sales meetings, uh, at a holiday inn in the ballroom once a month and the way they did it was like at each sales meeting they would put each person what level of sales. You were at AFI and I remember sitting in that room surrounded by men and women and when my name was on the top of all of these people. I remember sitting there and just praising God for what he's done in my life. I mean, it's just, I could not believe it. It was incredible. I mean, this is a guy.

Speaker 3: 57:08

I had no aptitude for sales. When I started sales I had zero. And when I retired, when I left PFG, I left a route of 7.5 million dollars from nothing. And I know it wasn't me. I mean, I was always still that scared little young man in the parking lot. I tried my best. I tried to do my best, but he blessed me and um I.

Speaker 1: 57:41

I gotta share this with you, gary, because this is it's. I love hearing your story there. I have a similar element to to my story as well, but there's a verse that popped into my head when you're sharing this first corinthians 127. But god has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are mighty.

Speaker 1: 58:07

And I also took a sales aptitude test in college. My dad gave me one. I didn't ask for it, he just said, hey, take this, I'm curious to see. And I didn't ask for it. He just said, hey, take this, I'm curious to see. He was a successful, you know, phd, food scientist guy and I was just a kid that didn't do my homework and got C's in high school. And I take this sales aptitude test. And he said I would never hire you for sales. I was like you zero, zero aptitude. I've also got the mid, the midwestern kind of thing, of like. Rule number one in the midwest is just don't bother anybody ever. And and you know I started and so I'm kind of in sale. Finance is very much, sales, it's a lot, that's a heavy element and I'm like, looking back, I'm like how the heck did that happen? The guy that recruited me could sell ice to an eskimo like he could sell anything to anybody. He's just naturally gifted in that area and I'm not at all.

Speaker 1: 59:12

And I'm like but I keep praying about it and the doors keep opening and I'm like what am I?

Speaker 2: 59:17

what am I?

Speaker 1: 59:18

doing here and I'm supposed to go knock on doors, knocking on doors, feeling terrible that I'm even bothering anybody you know, I'm sure you seem to like you have a similar vibe to you and I'm like.

Speaker 2: 59:30

I'm like what am I?

Speaker 1: 59:31

doing here and now. Fast forward like five, six years later. I'm like you know, they're asking me like to coach people on stuff and I'm like I I, it's just God like I've done a bad job at sales.

Speaker 3: 59:43

I just like.

Speaker 3: 59:44

God keeps filling my nets and I can relate, chris, a thousand percent. A thousand percent. I mean, you know, like in the Salesforce you meet guys and there's like guys that are just it's so easy for them, they're back slappers, they have jokes and they just so smooth with people and that was just not me, I mean. But I had customers for like 20, they stuck with me for like 25 years, you know, and I have my competition, Cisco foods and us foods have my competition, cisco foods and us foods I mean, and their reps would go into my accounts and try to take my business, just like I go in and try to take other people's business. They'd come in and like my good customers would say, no, we buy from gary, not because because gary is like a super salesman, but I was honest and I I could never lie. I always told them straight and you know they just appreciated honesty and that I guess that was my niche you know, that I was sincere.

Speaker 1: 1:00:52

Yeah Well, trust is is a slower game, but it's the better game, right, it's the better thing to do and just build, build trust. But and but it's the better game, right, it's the better thing to do, and just build, build trust. But and you even said something that I, my mantra, became like like your would write on your blotter I, I, sales put me into major anxiety a few years in, because I had four kids and a baby on the way I'm like what are you doing, god?

Speaker 1: 1:01:17

I kind of is terrible. I'm nervous and anxious and all this stuff and a couple of buddies of mine just kind of helped me through it. But one of the verses I found the Holy Spirit revealed to me in Proverbs is the horses are prepared for the day of battle, but the victory belongs to the Lord. And it hit me like it hit you when that guy told you make god your partner. That verse struck me like a bat on the side of the head and I was like, oh my gosh, I just need to. I just need to prepare my the horses. I don't even the. The outcome of the battle is in god's hands.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

So good man, so I was like, well, what are my horses?

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

Okay, I guess cold calling doing whatever I needed to do. And so I mean, my firm gave me the cookbook of what to do. You know whatever, show up to this place, talk to that guy. I just was like, okay, I'm just going to do that, and then I'm going to go home and have dinner with my family, I'm that, and then I'm gonna go home and have dinner with my family.

Speaker 1: 1:02:22

I'm not gonna worry about it anymore and it was, and now that's when they asked me to coach. I'm like that's. All I know is that, just leave it up to god.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

So I'm telling people that aren't even believers.

Speaker 3: 1:02:34

I'm like I don't know, just trust god. Maybe you know I love that oh, this is uh you'll appreciate this, chris. Uh, the president of uh, of pfg. Uh, one day he took me into his office and he said gary, what's yours, what's, what's your strategy? Strategy for success, how? How were you successful? And I looked at him and I said well, steven, I pray a lot. He looked at me like I had three heads. He expected some grandiose plan or something I just said I pray a lot. It was awesome.

Speaker 1: 1:03:13

Hey, there you go. Honesty, that's your thing, all right. So one question is you kind of get this grace message Did you hold on to your Jewishness? Do you still hold on to your Jewishness? How would you relate to the Jewish community now that?

Speaker 3: 1:03:36

you're a grace-belesus following guy well um, I am, I, I consider myself a messianic jew, um, um, and with everything that's happening in the world today, chris, um, I, my heart has is just so drawn to my people, what they're going through in Israel and the war. And if, by, by the grace of God, if a Jew ever hears this podcast, I would just ask that they would read a passage that when I found this in the Old Testament, it was life-changing for me as a Jew when I saw and there's many passages when I saw Jesus in scriptures in the Old Testament and it was plainly him just mind-boggling, mind-blowing. And the book is Isaiah, the 53rd chapter. And, if you'll grant me, I would just like is it okay if?

Speaker 3: 1:05:12

I just read this it's called the Suffering Servant. It's actually the end of chapter 52, and it goes on into 53. It says See, my servant will act wisely. He will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. This is talking about Jesus Christ. Just as there were many who were appalled at him, jesus Christ, just as there were many who were appalled at him. His appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness, so will he sprinkle. Many nations and kings will shut their mouths because of him, for what they were not told they will see and what they have not heard, they will understand.

Speaker 3: 1:06:06

Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender shoot and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men. A man of sorrows and familiar with suffering, like one from whom men hide their faces. He was despised and we esteemed him not. Surely, he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities, and the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Speaker 3: 1:07:10

We all, like sheep, have gone astray. Each of us has turned to his own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. He was led like a lamb to the slaughter and as a sheep before her shearers is silent. So he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and who can speak of his descendants? He was cut off from the land of the living For the transgression of my people. He was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich. In his death and any of us that know the story of Jesus he was laid in Joseph of Arimathea's grave. His grave was with the rich and with the wicked. He was crucified between two criminals, though he had done no violence and nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer. And though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offering and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied. The resurrection of Jesus Christ. By his knowledge, my righteous servant, will justify many and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will give him a portion among the great and he will divide the spoils with the strong. Now, if that's not Jesus Christ, his life, I don't know what is. And that's in the book of Isaiah. That's the Old Testament.

Speaker 3: 1:09:26

And just one other passage for any of you Jews that are listening to this podcast, just one Psalm 22. It begins I'm not going to read this whole thing, but it begins with my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And we know when Jesus was on the cross, those were the words that came out of his lips. It says but I am a worm and no man, scorned by men and despised by the people. Picture this Jesus on the cross.

Speaker 3: 1:10:02

All who see me mock me. They hurl insults, shaking their heads. He trusts in the Lord. Let the Lord rescue him, let him deliver him, since he delights in him, and I'll skip ahead. I'll skip ahead.

Speaker 3: 1:10:19

Many bulls surround me, strong bulls of Bashan encircle me, roaring lions tearing their prey, open their mouth wide against me. I'm poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax. It's melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. It's melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You lay me in the dust of death. Dogs surround me, a band of evil men encircle me. They have pierced my hands and my feet. This was written hundreds of years before crucifixion was even invented. They pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones. People stare and they gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and they cast lots for my clothing. In the book of John, it talks about the soldiers that cast lots for Jesus's clothing, just like it said that they would do.

Speaker 3: 1:11:32

In this Psalm. There's just so many things that Jesus fulfilled, from the Old Testament to the New. I don't have time to go into it and I can't go into it. But um, hey, jesus christ is the son of the living god and uh, he come back. He come back, I and I I referenced this once before but um, his feet are going to stand on the Mount of Olives. It's in Zechariah, the 14th chapter. This is the last scripture I'll do.

Speaker 3: 1:12:09

The Lord will go out and fight against the nations as he fights on the day of battle. On that day, his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. That Jesus Christ. His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, East of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives. That Jesus Christ. His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem.

Speaker 3: 1:12:22

The Mount of Olives will split in two, from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain going to the north and half to the south. And you will flee from my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azeal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah. The Lord, my God, will come with all his holy ones with him. On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime, a day known to the Lord. When evening comes, it will be light. On that day, living waters will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea, half to the western sea. In summer and winter, the Lord will be king over the whole earth, king Jesus. On that day there will be one Lord and His name, the only name the King of kings and Lord of lords, yeshua, yeshua HaMashiach, and that's all I got to say.

Speaker 2: 1:13:35

Gary, thank you so much for being here and sharing everything you did, thanks. I love how the Lord has led your life from the beginning of only knowing a legalistic God and through all of the different circumstances that led you to knowing who Jesus is. It's fascinating how he crafted that.

Speaker 3: 1:14:03

Would you guys mind if I you know, there's one thing that I I really like to close with this. Uh, when I came back from Jamaica, the first time, like all I did was read Psalms, and I came across Psalm 128. And this Psalm touched it, touched my heart, and I said, oh God, if you would do this for me in my life, I will be so grateful.

Speaker 3: 1:14:31

And I'm going to recite it to you. It's in my heart. It says blessed are those who fear the Lord, who walk in his ways. You will eat the fruit of your labor. Blessing and prosperity will be yours. Your wife will be like a fruitful vine in your house, your children like olive plants around your table. Behold, thus is a man blessed who fears the lord. May the lord bless you from zion all the days of your life. May you live to see your children's children, and peace be upon israel. God almighty fulfilled every stanza of that psalm in my life. When I first read it, I had no wife, I had no children, I had no grandchildren, I had nothing. And God fulfilled every part of that psalm in my life, except for the last line peace of Jerusalem. And I believe that one day I will see the peace of Jerusalem when Jesus comes back. Amen, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:15:44

Gary, thank you, you, thank you.