The Uncommon Path
"The Uncommon Path" is a podcast that intimately explores the transformative journeys of individuals, featuring raw and unfiltered testimonies that celebrate the resilience, growth, and shared human experiences, offering listeners a source of inspiration and connection on their own life paths. Join us as we unveil the extraordinary stories that shape who we are.
The Uncommon Path
Thomas Maldonado - From Pursuing the American Dream to Abiding in Christ: Discovering True Identity and Divine Purpose
Can you imagine losing everything you once thought defined you, only to find your true identity in the process? Join us as we hear from Thomas Maldonado of Good Soil Ministries, who shares his powerful testimony of turning to Jesus after an unfulfilling pursuit of the American dream. Through personal struggles and spiritual revelations, Thomas discovered a purpose that transcends worldly achievements, learning to abide in Christ and hear His voice.
We also discuss remarkable experiences of divine intervention and real-time prayers that transformed Thomas' head knowledge of God into a heartfelt relationship with Jesus. Discover how a simple moment of unloading tree limbs at a dump led to the profound realization of Jesus' active love and the restoration of Thomas' landscaping business. His journey underscores the importance of faith, trust, and the transformative power of divine guidance, igniting a passion for helping others.
Lastly, we explore the impactful practice of creating dedicated prayer rooms in homes, inspired by friends who have crafted sacred spaces for deeper connection with Jesus. These prayer rooms have brought healing and encouragement, especially to leaders in need. Hear inspiring stories of divine provision and learn about the significance of wholehearted obedience to God's call. Join us as we navigate themes of faith, career, and the intersection of divine purpose, offering heartfelt prayers and encouragement for all seeking clarity and fulfillment in their spiritual journeys.
Hey everyone, this is Chris and Ryan from the Uncommon Path podcast. We're coming up on the end of our first season and we want to hear from you, Whether you're on Spotify or Apple podcasts. You should see a send us a message button. This is an easy way you can text the podcast. We'd love to hear feedback on how this first season of episodes ministered to you or to a loved one. What are your favorite things about the podcast? What are maybe some not so favorite things about the podcast?
Speaker 2:Our mission is to bring to light the countless stories of God's faithfulness and power at work in his body and in his church. Is there anyone whose story you think should be heard? Is there anyone you think we should interview? All these questions and anything else you can think of we want to hear? So be sure to text the podcast directly from the home screen of wherever you listen to us from.
Speaker 1:We'll see you on the next Rabbit Trail. Thomas gives the alright Ryan gesture, hand gesture. That's the official Ryan, take it away you've seen this happen you've seen this audio podcast you've seen this audio podcast.
Speaker 2:Today we are visited by one of my dearest friends, thomas Maldonado, part of Good Soil Ministries. I am excited to see what you have to share today. I love how you have a simple faith in that Jesus can do anything he wants, and that's something that has been exemplified in your life over and over and over again, and I love that. This is the uncommon path where we do a deep dive into people's stories and their paths with the Lord. There's going to be plenty of time to talk about whatever you feel like the Lord wants to highlight In a nutshell. We would like to hear background information on how your walk with Jesus began, what he's doing currently, the process that got you from there to here, what is he highlighting for the future and then anywhere in between. If the Lord wants to camp out, we can camp out at about an hour. I would like for you to start off with who you are and what you're about who I am and what I'm about.
Speaker 3:That's a. It's a great question.
Speaker 2:It has even a better answer.
Speaker 3:Who I am. I would say I'm learning who I am. Uh, the more time I spend with jesus, the more things about who he's created me to be, uh I discover and uh, what I'm about. I would say right now he has focused very narrowly on encouraging people to grow and what it means to abide and to hear his voice. It's probably a lot of me speaking less and creating space for him to speak more, whether that's engaging one-on-one, whether that's in a community setting or in a large forum retreat.
Speaker 2:Now, when did your relationship with the Lord start?
Speaker 3:I think before I was born, you know there was a relationship there if you want the real answer to the question, you know, maybe you can be more specific, right?
Speaker 2:when did the relationship with jesus become real to you?
Speaker 3:okay's a, that's a good question.
Speaker 3:I like that Um become real. I would. I would also answer, and in some ways it's becoming more real, uh, the more that I grow, um, I think growing up I didn't have a. There was not a heart level connection it. We go to church on sunday. We do the church things the handbell, the choir, the, you know, know the right answers, like, know what to say in sunday school, so that you know it's always jesus right, that's always the answer to the question, um, and it was a thing that we did rather than a like navigational point for how to engage with life. And so it was a thing that we did rather than a like a navigational point for how to engage with life. And so it was a part of living, not necessarily a formational like. This is who we are, Um.
Speaker 3:And so I just went my own way, you know, just tried to figure out how I could navigate life and, uh, failed epically many times over and many different ways, and I got to a point of kind of losing everything and saying, okay, like, I'm still alive, but all the things that used to define Thomas is Thomas, like are no longer existing. So who am I? Because, if like are no longer existing? So who am I? Because, if, if all these things that I had used to prop up my identity in the public sphere now no longer actually support me, but I'm still alive that means there must be something else besides the construct of what I believed, you know actually identified me.
Speaker 1:What were some of those things that were propping up that false sense of self?
Speaker 3:I think my pursuit of the American dream would have been the you know, got to get a house. You know, got to have a job. You know, I had a motorcycle. I had a truck. You know I had all the physical things that I could want to try to say, okay, this is who I am. You know, I own these things. So, therefore I have value, or I work in this way. Therefore I have value, I've made it.
Speaker 1:I've made it Because I've got toys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly yeah, and that yeah exactly, yeah, and that you know that wasn't there. How did how did that not be there? Uh, well, I had. I had my daughter when I was 17, and so very quickly I grew up, um. So then I bought a house when I was 19 because I thought, well, if I'm going to be an adult, I better start adulting, uh. And so by the time I was 21, uh, through working really hard, I had acquired all the worldly things that I thought that I needed. So I had a, I had a house, I had a motorcycle, I had a family station wagon, had a truck, um, had a little girl, um. And I'm looking around at my life and I'm like, okay, like what else is there?
Speaker 1:You kind of hit the American model life at what? 21? 21, yeah, that's pretty early.
Speaker 3:Well, there were a few things I was missing. So I didn't have a dog and I hadn't built a white picket fence and. I hadn't found a wife. So very quickly I took an honest inventory at 21. I was like, okay, here are the things I'm missing.
Speaker 1:Fence.
Speaker 3:Fence was the easiest right.
Speaker 2:Build a fence Because you were a landscaper, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fence was easy. Dog was easy. And wife I just like went out, Probably the next girl that I met. I was like, okay, let's get married. And within six weeks I proposed within Wait, are you kidding? Just like went out, probably the next girl that I met. I was like okay, let's get married. And within six weeks I proposed within wait are you kidding?
Speaker 3:no, serious. Within within three months we were married and within six weeks after that we were pregnant, and I had no idea what it meant to be a husband. It was just let me find a wife that can now fit into my life and like this is going to work out. And that ended pretty epically, you know, and tragically, um and so then I'm at a point of of everything's gone right. I've lost custody of my kids, um, quit my job. I'm in a deep depression and it's like, like what, what's there anymore? Like I'm not a responsible husband, not a responsible father, like I'm not. I don't even have a job anymore. So like, what's the point of?
Speaker 3:even living, so that that helps kind of clarify.
Speaker 1:Love it. That gives some great back story.
Speaker 2:So I get I. One story I really want you to share. It's been on my heart for you to share is and I heard it for the first time recently when you were you can kind of go through like your journey of searching for God or, at the time, searching for a higher power, right Cause you weren't really sure, you just were convinced there was something more to life. But I would really love it if you would be okay sharing this story about.
Speaker 3:At the dump you ask the lord, if you're really real, help me unload this stuff the claw story yeah, yeah yeah, this would be after I had, uh, I'd begun to say, okay, I'm not okay and clearly I don't know enough about life, so I'm going to start asking for help. And so I started engaging in a Bible study. I started working out I was like I'm going to work out my physical, my mental, my spiritual and my emotional, because I just want to be healthy, I want to be better than what I was, and so my honest seeking of the Lord was I'm just going to start journaling. I'm going to record the journey because I don't want to become one of those crazy Christians that just like this, somehow, like miraculously. And so my first journal is Jesus, I don't know if you're real, but, uh, I'm going to record, you know, this, so that at some point, if I discovered something, I'd be able to go back and say look this, this is the exact path I walked, like, these are the questions I had, this is how he answered them. This is my lived experience. This isn't something I'm believing because somebody told me that I should. This is something that I've actually encountered and has brought transformation to my life and to my heart. And so you know I'm I like to see and and feel and know that something is real and genuine, not just put a blind. Yes, okay, somebody told me that that's true, so I'll I'll agree with it. Uh, so a lot of that was testing the Lord. It's like all right, lord, if you're, if you're really real, show me like what? What does it look like? How do I engage with you daily? What does it mean to actually hear your voice and to be led by that? Do you answer prayer, you know?
Speaker 3:And so I think the story that Ryan's referring to is um, back when I owned a landscape company I landscape company I didn't have a dump trailer and that meant I had to go to the dump and hand unload every branch, every stick, every tree.
Speaker 3:And one morning I'm going to the dump and I've got like ratchet strapped probably three times as many tree limbs as I should on the 16 foot open trailer. And I'm driving into the dump in Raleigh and I'm like, lord, you know, it'd be awesome if you could just help me unload these sticks, like cause I don't want to spend the next hour and a half, you know, pulling all this stuff off the trailer kind of a throwaway prayer. But just like you know, I'm asking why. It says ask. So I'm asking, and so I get out of my truck, I go and I start taking all the straps off of the load and, uh, I'm leaned over like fiddling around with one of the straps and I see this shadow kind of like pass over me and I and I look up and there's. Have you ever seen one of those giant trucks with the claws on it?
Speaker 1:that can reach down and pick up debris, the junk removal trucks, yeah.
Speaker 3:So this was like a tree one you know where they pick up the logs and this guy's sitting up there on the claw and he points to my trailer. And then he points to his claw and like he wants to remove it for me, and so I get out of the way. He literally takes the claw down and in one scoop, picks up every piece of debris and sets it off the trailer and I'm packed up and leaving within 10 minutes. And so you know, for me it was okay. Lord, you can answer prayer, Thank you. And so that was that would be my.
Speaker 3:My journey of engaging with him was asking him for real time. Help, Lord, I need help with this. What do you want me to do? Can, can you show up here? Can you show up there? I mean, we prayed, prayed away the rain one time for a job site, like it was raining everywhere in raleigh and my guys were like it's going to be pouring when we get there and I was like why don't we ask the lord to make a hole in the rain? And we showed up and literally as we're driving in the neighborhood, the rain stops and there was this patch of of dry right where we're working. We unloaded what we needed unloaded, and then it started raining there and I told the guys. I said, hey, the Lord is faithful. We asked him and he showed up. And so real time, like response, request and engagement with the Lord, was a formational and foundational aspect of my growing and understanding of him.
Speaker 2:Foundational aspect of my growing and understanding of him. So what did what after that experience with the claw? What kind of journey led you to all over the place?
Speaker 3:What kind of journey led me to all over the place.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You've been all over the place.
Speaker 2:But what was the?
Speaker 1:kind of. What was the kind of?
Speaker 2:journey that led you? Yeah, what type of? Yeah, what type of path? What type? Of uncommon is a narrow path if you find so was that this was all before you met elena, right, right.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, this was way, way back when, Probably 12, 15 years ago maybe.
Speaker 2:So take us a little bit from that experience to owning a business and helping people in need out.
Speaker 3:I can tell that story. So I started a landscape company out of pretty much nothing, because I just needed money. Uh, so I had a borrowed lawnmower, a weed eater and a pickup truck was this the 21 american dream or is this after?
Speaker 3:this was after um, this was kind of rebuilding. Rebuilding phase, okay and uh, you know, working, growing, just trying to find my way through how to create a life after, you know, destruction. I ended up getting custody back of my kids. You know lots of restoration of relationships, like really cool moments of the lord, like healing and then showing himself faithful to actually restore. But I also had a moment where my knowing of the Lord went from a head knowledge like I know that God is real because I've seen him. He's answered my prayers and therefore I trust him.
Speaker 3:Psalm 1, I think 18,. I sought the Lord. He's answered my prayers and therefore I trust him. Psalm one, I think 18,. You know, I sought the Lord, right, and he's answered me and that's why I am faithful to him. There's a song you know that has that in it um, to a actually falling in love with Jesus, and so I think like there's there's a difference, at least for me, and saying, think like there's there's a difference, at least for me. And saying, jesus, please save me because I need help, like, save my life and, jesus, I love you sure and then like receiving that love from him in a way that I can't help but now love other people.
Speaker 3:And so there was a moment when it just like I felt like for the first time I was loved, like I experienced being loved in a way that I didn't know was possible, and that kind of opened up my heart to the reality of who Jesusesus is. Not who he was in this historical figure, not who he will be, you know as as reigning supreme king, but real time.
Speaker 3:Oh, this is who jesus is. He's active, his presence is here with me. And that moment of my heart becoming alive, probably for the first time, I'm like 25, 25, it wrecked me. I was like hold on a second. I've gone 25 years of trying to find my way in the dark and failing over and over again. Why didn't anyone tell me that there was another way? Why didn't? Why? How come I got to this point? And I'm just now realizing that Jesus is real, alive and active and his love can transform me. And so that moment it was literally like like rivers of living water. It was just like I have to go and love people, like I couldn't not go and love people because there was this, this built up, pent up, um, relational ability to connect. That it was like, okay, who is the most difficult to love? Where can I find them? And, um, I thought the homeless. Like that's it, like nobody wants to love on the homeless.
Speaker 3:And so I started going into downtown Raleigh, actually helped with a food and clothing ministry. We were going down into the Wilmington Street Men's Shelter. We'd get the guys' names, their bunk number. We'd come back the next week. Here's your size 34 pants, size 12 shoes. One-on-one relational discipleship and time with the guys. I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew that they needed love and and I had love that had been given to me and I wanted to share it.
Speaker 3:And so from there, I'm down there with the guys and I, um, I asked the guy one one afternoon or evening. I said, hey, how are you? And he starts crying and I said, hey, you? And he starts crying and I said, hey, you know, it's okay, like what he's like? No, no, I got out of prison like six weeks ago and you're the first person that's asked me how I'm doing, and he's like that just wrecked me. And I thought, hold on a second. Like we've got all these guys that are homeless. And this guy's story is he's homeless because he got out of prison and there was nobody there, like that transition from being incarcerated to living in the real world, like how do you, how do you do that? Um, and he was stuck like back in the homeless shelter, wanting to be back in prison, where there's three meals a day, where there was a safe place to sleep, because it was so difficult to transition. And so I thought, well gosh, if we want to help the homeless, I need to get into the prison, like if, if we're going to stop this, we've got to get to the guys before they get on the street so that we can stop this cycle. And so I went and did all the training. To be able to go into the prison you have to go. There's like training, like once a year, um, and you're able to engage and go inside.
Speaker 3:And so I went into prison, thinking this was going to be more difficult than the homeless ministry. Like we're in prison, right, you've seen movies. So I go into prison for the first time. I think it was weight correctional and uh, it was like the lights were bright. The guys were like clean cut, well-dressed, excited to talk to you. The guys were like clean cut, well-dressed, excited to talk to you, and, coming from the homeless shelter, like those guys were not clean, they were not well-dressed and they were not excited to talk to you and it was difficult. And so, being even just once in the prison, I was like I don't think this is my place, like it's. It felt too easy in some ways because we were there and they would come to us. And so I thought, man, I want to engage in real life, like I don't want to engage here, I want to. I want something to get my hands dirty, to really be involved in the lives of these guys. And so I started helping out with a transitional house. And so that was a place for guys to come and live once they've gotten out of prison, so they'd start a program in and then they'd go to this transitional house outside of prison.
Speaker 3:Um, and so I started volunteering, going to Bible studies, helping out these guys, and one day, this guy we're talking one evening at Bible study. And, um, I needed help on a job site the next day, like the company had grown just a little bit and I needed some extra help. And so I said, hey, uh, would you want to come work tomorrow? He said, yes, sir. I said, okay, I'll, I'll pick you up at eight o'clock.
Speaker 3:And so I'd go the next morning I pick up this guy who's fresh, fresh out of prison I think he'd been in six years and, um, I had a kid working on my crew at the time it was probably 18, 19. And his dad had said hey, will you please take my son to work with you? Like he's dabbling around in things he shouldn't be. He won't listen to me Maybe he'll listen to you and I'd been talking to him for about two weeks and nothing Like. I can't crack through his exterior. He just wants to work. He doesn't want to engage on a deeper level, and so I put him working with this guy that's gotten out of prison.
Speaker 3:And I'm standing downtown Raleigh, probably 10 yards away, they're just digging in the dirt, kind of smoothing out an area for a new home build, and this guy that's been in prison had met Jesus and so he'd gotten saved, and so he's sharing the gospel with this kid, and I mean his. This kid's face was just like eyes open, jaw dropped down. He's just like soaking in every word that this guy is saying, cause not only had he gone to prison, he'd gone to prison for the same drugs that this kid was starting to fool around with. And so his testimony, you know, had weight to it because it spoke specifically to the struggles of this guy's heart. And so that was a moment when I looked and I said, hold on a second. Like this guy's working, he's getting paid. This guy's working, he's getting paid.
Speaker 3:Like, as a company, we're making money, but the gospel is being shared and god's getting the glory, I was like, sign me up for more of that. And so, in my impulsive nature, I was like, let's go all in. So now, you know, I'm having three hours of bible study in the morning because I've got three guys that have come out of prison, um, on a regular basis. And you know it was, uh, it was a long season of like working with high need guys and what it looks like to to be not only their employer but their mother, their brother, their counselor, their banker. Um, lots of stories of um like success If you define success as somebody truly engaging in a life giving way with the Lord, and lots of, lots of disappointments, lots of frustration, lots of pain, um, but a real formative learning time of of what does it mean to really meet somebody at their darkest place and walk them into living in a way that's responsible. Does that answer your question, ryan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was jotting down notes. I can't remember the order of these stories, but we're already 20 minutes in I would love for you these are a few that I would love for you to touch on, if possible. I would love for you to share the forgiveness you showed your ex-wife, if you would, if you feel at peace to do so, and I would love for you to share kind of the journey of how you met Y the trog story with the phone, like calling her on accident and then kind of come full circle with doing the business away, letting him design your back prayer garden, prayer room and what you're doing currently now.
Speaker 3:It's about seven hours of stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just thinking about that.
Speaker 1:I was like what was the first one again?
Speaker 3:I mean, we're still probably 10 plus years ago, so we have 10 years of daily walking with the lord if we're going to catch up to like where, where and how he's moving currently and so I would. I would pick, I would pick one of those. Maybe I'll ask you is there, is there something that is is burning on your heart or a question that you may have? You have the benefit of not knowing my story, whereas ryan and I have known each other for a while.
Speaker 2:That's the that's the problem with me being behind the microphone yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't, you know, with the descript, limited descriptors of what ryan read out. I I don't even know how to pick from those because I don't know anything they're about. I I think the thing I'm most interested in whenever we do these podcasts is to see the thread of somebody's walk with the lord, and so that's. I mean, whatever stories you think highlight that journey and how that journey has just been going. That's what I want to hear you know, because it's it's ultimately. We want to get to know thomas, but we want to see jesus interacting. We want to see the hand of the lord on your life. That's, that's my, my goal. I don't know if that provides any clarity or not, but I think.
Speaker 3:I think that's helpful because you know the stories, ryan, that you're asking about probably deserve their own time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, and you know, we're here on a podcast to hear about Jesus and I'm here. Kearney has his own story to share, like that would be. Why would I rob from him by sharing his story when he's not here? Yeah, because it's best if it's fresh and if it's heard from. You. Know somebody there, um, from a high level. It was walking with a man who man who had PTSD for 40 something years and what that looked like for the Lord to bring healing to his life, to his heart, to his addictions, and that meant going back in country, to Vietnam. You know, there was a. It was a crazy journey of just saying Lord, how do you, how do you heal my friend? And so if there's a red thread or a message that I feel the Lord has weaved through my life, it is looking for lost sheep. Right, it is. Isolation is a problem.
Speaker 3:And that's not how we're created to be.
Speaker 3:And how can I be someone who intentionally cultivates and creates opportunities for meaningful engagement around eternally important things, especially for those that believe they're too far gone or that it's not possible for them Because that was me. I believed I was too far gone and that I was beyond redemption, and, having been rescued and been brought in and then restored, it's like no, no, no, no, there's no. You can't do enough wrong to get yourself far enough away from jesus. Doesn't matter what you've done, doesn't matter where you are, like there is a way to come back to him. And now it won't be easy, and the fact that it's probably going to be walking through pain and it's probably going to be doing things that are not comfortable, but there is a way to enter into, you know, the restoration of a resurrected life, and so that that theme has carried through all that. I do you know, I see that now in all these different areas of of ministry and of engagement, but it really boils down to like do you know you're loved and that you're not.
Speaker 1:It feels like you're going after the most hopeless.
Speaker 3:That was a season.
Speaker 1:Like when you were like going to prison and you're like this seems too easy, like who would say that? Like you obviously got a calling towards a very specific and a very certain level of brokenness. If you go into prison ministry and think these guys got it all together or like not, now you're saying that but you're like this feels too, this is not my level. My level is more hopelessness than these guys have.
Speaker 3:And that was probably a season of me wanting to test the Lord, like can I find someone that's too far gone? No, I tried, I looked for the most hopeless, the most wrecked, and the Lord still met them. And so that was a season of me learning and of exploring and testing and seeking. And the season I'm in now is completely different. Um, like now he has us ministering to, like the leaders of the leaders of the church, um, and in europe, because guess what, when you're the leader of your denomination in your country, it can be pretty isolating, it can be pretty isolating, it can be pretty lonely. Who do you talk to? And so, like that, like currently, right now, um, what we're doing, you know, as part of good soul ministries, is going and being available to, um, be with, to minister to, uh, the the leaders of the church, because that's another place of isolation that many people don't think about.
Speaker 1:My brother is a sociologist and he told me that like one of the most like plaguing problems in society globally right now is loneliness, mm-hmm, which she kind of also said. Ironically, a lot of social sociologists are lonely introverts.
Speaker 1:that isolate themselves um, but he's like a phd kind of fits that mold, but I've always carried that like very interesting problem to me. It's like there's people everywhere. There's six, seven billion people in the world or something. Loneliness is a problem and it's and it's a growing problem. I mean how you're ministering in this field, like what do you think about that? How do you help people with that? It's like you know that old sailors uh adage like you're on the ocean, you're out of seeing. You're like water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.
Speaker 3:It's like people are all over the place, they're all lonely oh, that that kind of gets back to like the core of our ministry. Um began with a, with a. The lord gave an invitation. This was beginning of 2020. Um, I'd met my wife. We met in a monastery in France, at Tizzee.
Speaker 3:The Lord brought us together from different parts of the world. She's from Estonia. That's another crazy story. We got married. We lived on two continents for some time she lived in Brussels, I lived in the States. We had a transcontinental marriage, but the foundation of our relationship was a deep connection with the Lord, before our physical connection, before our emotional connection. It was we'd both fallen in love with Jesus and you know, he brought us together so that our marriage could be something that served him in a new way. And I didn't know what that meant, and we're still learning that.
Speaker 3:And so, beginning of 2020, I'm journaling one day and I felt like the Lord said give me a room in your home. And I thought, well, that's kind of weird, I don't know what that means. Like, my whole life is already yours. I'm serving you with everything I have. Like, why do you want a room? But it was. I mean, it was very clear. It was give me a room. But it was. I mean, it was very clear it was give me a room.
Speaker 3:I was like, okay, and so I went home and, like we had this sunroom, like attached onto the edge of the house, and I felt like that was the room he wanted. And so, you know, I called my wife, I said, hey, I'm gonna clean everything out of this room. The lord wants it. And so I cleaned everything out of the space and you guys have been there that's where you started the podcast, right so that that room, um, was designed by the Lord, because every physical aspect of how it looks, of how it feels, was him bringing a space, uh, in our home that he could, he could live, that he could meet people in the way that he wanted to in our home. That he could, he could live, that he could meet people in the way that he wanted to. And so, having a sacred space, a thin space, so to speak, that's set apart, where the well is deep, the water is clean and you can come as you are and you can encounter the presence of the living god you know, you said a thin space.
Speaker 1:What do you?
Speaker 3:mean um, it'd be like an old ir old Irish term of a place where it's like the separation between the divine and the created doesn't feel as much of a barrier, and so a place where it's easy to connect with the spirit of the Lord Gotcha place where it's easy to connect with the spirit of the Lord, and you know we I would say in America I'll generalize, but there's such a focus on we want to be smart stewards of our spaces, we want them to be a gymnasium in the week, we want them to be a worship center on the weekend, that having a sacred place that's set apart only to engage with the Lord is a little bit lost. And so having a physical location that is set apart and dedicated only to engaging with God is not often found. I go to Europe. There's cathedrals, like there's lots of places over the years, but it's growing less and less common, and so we found having a, a a dedicated physical space that's only to engage with him, um can be really powerful.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Just recently, a few of our friends, ryan, have set aside I'm gonna call them prayer rooms. Our buddy daniel, our buddy brian have both crafted like specific rooms in their house that are so this has been the most contagious idea really because they're everywhere.
Speaker 3:And I mean I've had I had a guy show up for a prayer room appointment, which we can talk about what that looks like, and he left. I didn't see him for a few months and I ran into him and he's like hey, I cleaned out a room in my home, my family and I now have a prayer room where we meet with Jesus. And you know, I met another guy He'd never even come to visit. He lives, I think, down in Georgia somewhere, and I just told him the story. One day, you know, we met somewhere at a retreat and a few months later he calls me. He's like hey, I'm building an addition on my house.
Speaker 3:I just added a room, like for the Lord, because I want to have a prayer room in my home. And so the idea, the idea, uh, has been really contagious and it's gone way beyond. Like if I had a, if I had a grid or a map, you know, of where this one thought, this one invitation has spread, uh, it'd be like this you know, crazy web, you know across, um, you know, a huge swath of the world, um, not because it's my idea, but because it was his invitation.
Speaker 3:And so his invitation is something that he'll extend to other people. Uh, the way we look at it as our family like, we have a house. There's a bathroom, right, so we could use the bathroom. There's a bedroom. You sleep there there's. There's a kitchen. You prepare food. You have a usually an entertainment room. Why wouldn food? You have a usually an entertainment room. Why wouldn't you have a prayer room? Like? Why not have a space dedicated to the one that made everything? You know that if we say that we're christian, we've said our whole lives are in your hands, lord, and so why not have a physical space that's dedicated to just spend time with them? You know the idea of a prayer closet is pretty common.
Speaker 3:You know War Room, that movie kind of made it popular. Like you go in and you have this tiny little space and it's your closet that you go to to be with the Lord, which is valuable and it's good. But what does it look like to have a family space? Or a communal space where the only intention of gathering is to say, lord, you're here. Of gathering is to say, lord, you're here, we want to be with you.
Speaker 1:What do you want us to do? That's so cool, man. It reminds me of the helsers. Um, you know jonathan most helps their farm. Sophia been on a retreat or two out there.
Speaker 2:They have a praise zebo they call it praise zebo, it's just a gazebo, but it's for it's like walled in and it's for prayer.
Speaker 1:It's like you gotta like make a little journey to it too.
Speaker 3:It's not like it's you gotta walk there and kind of get there whatever, but it's a cool idea, and what that's done is it's gone from, you know, a physical location in our home, um, to a prayer garden, which you guys have have seen and experienced. But then also, now that's something that travels. And so I said something about leaders earlier is I've found, um, that if you're in a high level leadership, rarely are you going to reach out and ask for help. One, who do you ask for help? And then two, I don't want to look weak by saying I need help. And so what we found is, if we set up a location alongside where those that are leading would already be for another reason, whether it's a conference, whether it's a gathering, and there's a place set aside for prayer, um, the Lord can bring them there.
Speaker 3:You know, I've had guys. They just peeked their head in the door hey, what's what's going on in here? And I'll say hey, if you're curious, come sit down. Why don't we spend some time and ask Jesus if there's anything he wants to share with us while we're together? And they'll be in tears, and sometimes they're confessing, sometimes they're getting healing for something they didn't even know was a wound that was preventing them from leading in the way that the Lord had designed them to as a guide and a shepherd for his church, to as a guide and a shepherd for his church. And so you know, those short-term high impact, you know heart surgeries or moments of clarity and encounter for leaders are really valuable because that's what prevents the moral failures, that's what prevents the burnouts, that's what can encourage someone who's rare to be able to be encouraged.
Speaker 1:Did you have leaders in your life that kind of modeled for?
Speaker 3:you, I would say I went through a season of really wanting to find a mentor, like, please, let me find this, this gray haired man, right. It's kind of like you know, sit in a rocking chair and I can go to him, and he'll just look at me and just nod and smile and yep, and kind of like, see and affirm who I am and like be my guide, be my, my assist. And the frustrating thing, um, is I had such a strong desire for that that I would find somebody that had gray hair. I'd be like oh, that's me, let's talk, and we would sit down and I would hear something in their heart. And, before you know it, I was sitting in the other seat and and they're like oh, that was so good, thank you so much. I just really enjoyed.
Speaker 3:And I was getting frustrated because I was like Lord, like I, I wanted to receive, like I didn't want to hear the brokenness in this guy's heart, but I couldn't help but hear it, um, and at some point I realized, okay, the person that I'm seeking to find doesn't exist. It's a construct of my imagination. It's something that sounds really aspirational and nice. Maybe I should take the form of just being humble and saying Lord, I want to be teachable and humble. I want to learn from anybody that you place in my path. If there's something you want to teach me through my time, whether it's a guy in the homeless shelter or it's a mentor or a pastor or a leader like, give my heart the ability to receive. And so, rather than looking for somebody that had all the answers, I looked for whatever answers might be found in those that I interacted with and something in that heart posture shift, um, like that desire to find a person to speak just kind of evaporated and I was like Lord, you're the one, you are the one that can speak my identity over me. You're the one that can affirm who you've crafted me to be, rather than looking for that in a human person. I'm going to trust you and what I found is then then now he's kind of gifted, uh, the ability to speak into others' lives in the way that I would have wanted.
Speaker 3:You know I can't tell you how many times I've sat down with someone and through a casual conversation, um, more so overseas. But you know, the guy was like I feel like I just had a conversation with Jesus and and and I can't take credit for that, because it wasn't me, it was his heart flowing through me that spoke to his heart, that gave him a sense of being seen and known by the one that made him. And so those interactions are awesome. But I can't chase that high because I'm not in control of when the Holy Spirit wants to show up and love somebody in a radical way. But I can choose to place my heart, my mind, my faculties in his hands so that I'm available. So when he wants to activate and speak to somebody through me, or to love somebody, uh, in a, in a conversation, or in a in a moment, I'm ready for that. Um.
Speaker 1:Thomas, do you think that your past um like failures and like very like what you called like a very dramatic you know tragic moments of in your marriage and business and life, like these, and probably very public if it's done in the context of family, like do those those kind of Valley experiences? Is that part of why you think you can you play this role? Or do you think this is just more like your calling and your gifting?
Speaker 3:Hmm, I think I would say I mean, I'm, I'm a young man, right, but I've there's been a lot of life in the years that I've lived.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm getting at. Yeah, like, and so there's been a lot of life in the years that I've lived. That's what I'm getting at. And so there's a maturity right and there's a I've seen things, I've experienced things.
Speaker 3:That kind of strips away pretense and it strips away a sense of I need to craft my image in a way that you're going to like me. I found myself in times where it's like I don't really care if people like me. I want to be obedient to who the Lord's called me to be and I want to love people, but seeking after their praise feels pretty empty. Silver and gold are tested in the crucible and a man's heart is tested through praise and so like. Why would I seek after the praise of man, um, when I know what it's like to be loved by you, know the love of my soul, and so the the experiences that I've had, like the depth of suffering, I think that's where you're going.
Speaker 3:um, have also created space for, for a depth of joy, for a depth of of reality, and so, uh, probably what I struggle with is I really don't like small talk.
Speaker 3:Like like, if we're going to sit and just talk about, you know, whatever game is on, or like some, uh, surface level, like engagement, I'm like I don't like not interested, like I'm, I'm here to to go deep, to talk about something that's real life, and like I just that's a, that's a weakness, maybe a character flaw. It's like I just don't, don't want to. I'm learning. Like, uh, because I see people that do it, I'm like, how do you, how do you carry that conversation when we're not talking about heart issues? Like I just want to, I want to get into the real stuff, um, and so you know, I think I think, because of what I've lived through and what I've walked through with others, there's things that I value in life that I don't get rocked by small things. It has to be something really significant to impact my heart in a way that I'm going to be anxious or I'm going to be worried.
Speaker 3:And I get all the time people are like are you this calm all the time? I'm like well, no, but it's going to take a really big movement because there's a deep place of knowing.
Speaker 1:I think there's something about humility that's part of the process for great leaders to influence people at the highest level. You need to have a humility along the way and that was like a big part of your start. Like, like moses, like Moses started in the king's house, pharaoh's house, became a murderer 40 years in the desert before he lived out his true purpose and calling Peter, you know, denied Jesus became leader of the church. Paul was a murderer, you know, stricken like all these, all the pinnacle, david tending your few sheep, you think you're going to fight Goliath. Like there's something about acquaintance with the most humble place that allows you God to bring you to the highest place of leadership. And I just see that. I see that in your life bring you to the highest place of leadership. And I just see that I see that in your life. I see like this rocky start and now you're influencing leaders of denominations and you didn't come through the denominational structure oh, it's so weird.
Speaker 3:Like the invitations and the places of ministry. It's so like there's not a door to knock on to get there, like I'll be. And what's interesting is it's it's difficult to to share about because it's so sensitive, like some of these conversations, and I mean it's it's almost sitting in the place of, like a Protestant priest, right or I'm holding space in a sacramental way for these sessions, for these leaders right to to really like confess sometimes. Other times it's just to be encouraged, um, but to encounter the lord in a way that he wants to meet them. And so, um, you know, I'll be in berlin this, this coming week, um, with a global team of leaders, of leaders, and they said, thomas, would you please come? We, we want to meet with the Lord and we want to connect with each other.
Speaker 3:And, like you know, I live in Cary, north Carolina, and, and for some reason, the Lord has assigned an authority, um, and a gifting to be able to minister their hearts. And what I see is because I don't like, there's no ladder to climb, there's no place that I would like to get to, I just want to love people in whatever way and how that he wants to love people through me and how that he wants to love people through me and that place of not needing something from gives access to be able to minister out of purity, because we do what we do for free. It's like can we pay you, Well? No, well, how do you get funded? Well, the Lord sends what we need when we need it. That's its own journey of of trusting him, of we haven't done any fundraising for 18 months, like our. Our position is that the lord has called us and he's going to provide what we need how long have you been doing it?
Speaker 3:it's been 18 months now of uh like fully trusting his provision for all that we do, and that's travel, that's, you know, going in different parts of the world um, I can't believe it's already been 18 months.
Speaker 3:No, it's pretty wild but I mean that's that's. That's also a place of growth, that's also a place of trusting him. I mean, last week I needed tickets to go to to norway with the family and to Estonia, and it's like $3,000. I didn't have $3,000. I mean, we're serving, I'm like leading from the stage. My wife is leading worship for this conference of leaders from 18 different nations that are coming together and I didn't have the money to buy tickets to get there.
Speaker 3:But I know the Lord has said go. And so Wednesday last week I'm like, oh gosh, you know I need to. I need to like find some money somewhere, like, and it'd be really easy to ask. I know a lot of guys that make a lot of money. We've served a lot of guys that have made a lot of money. But our position is the Lord said guys that have made a lot of money. But our position is the Lord said I've set you apart for a purpose, trust me to provide. And so my wife was like we should wait till Saturday and if it doesn't come by Saturday, then we'll talk. And so Friday this guy comes and he hands me a check $3,000. And he's like I don't know why I was only going to give you half of that, but I feel like I'm supposed to give you this much. And I said well, I know why, because that's exactly what we needed. And so Saturday I can buy tickets. You know, that's it's. It's a really cool story Saturday. It's a really terrible story on thursday.
Speaker 3:And so that that active faith of trusting him, um, I mean, that's a, that's a place of growth. You know, that's uncovering areas of my own heart of wanting to be self-sufficient, of wanting to be independent, of wanting to have control. Um, preach it, man. But learning that I'm created to be dependent upon him for everything and that he is faithful to provide all the things that I need, not all the things that I want, um, I don't think there's another way to learn it. And so how do you, how do you grow in your humility? Your humility? You get humbled over and over again.
Speaker 3:I mean, I could tell stories for the next hour on different moments of we needed something and it got to the the last hour and somebody just shows up. I felt like I was supposed to give, and here you go. And what's beautiful about those stories is because we ask the Lord to send. Then it's him that puts it on somebody's heart to give, and so there's several moments when you know somebody would give and I'd reach out and be like hey, like that's exactly what we needed and here's why. And they're like man, I, I just felt like the Holy spirit was telling me to give this specific amount and thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3:Like now I know that I I was discerning correctly from him, and so it's an act of faith, both for the giver right and for us as receiving, of trusting him. I sure do wish that at some point there was a little more stability and what that looked like, you know, for my family, but we're only 18 months in. For my family, but we're only 18 months in, and so I would rather learn whatever lesson he has and continue the path of obedience than to step back into my own way of providing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes there's things you need to learn along the way.
Speaker 1:That can only be learned if you have to do it that way. I've seen yeah, I work with a lot of ministries and the financial side and I see them grow from that place of month to month living on faith to having a little more stability, to now stewarding resources and being able to be like, and then ministries giving to other ministries and and then being like. Now we've walked through this journey, now we're blessing. You know, probably like a lot of the people that give to you in the moment. There they had their moments where they were like that and now they're people of means and they can just say well, the the craziest stories is still living generously, you know.
Speaker 3:And so there was there's been a lot of moments where, like we did a men's conference in estonia, um, and I booked a venue, you know, ordered the food, and like we did not have the money to pay for it, and my wife, like we just had a baby too, and so she's like, hey, uh, where's this going to come from, you know? And uh, I said I don't know, let's ask the Lord. And so that was, that was probably, you know, one of many temptations to to reach out and ask. Like I know lots of guys that do men's ministry. I could just send an email I can call hey, we're doing this thing in Estonia. Would you, you know, help fund it? And we'd get fully funded right away, like I have no doubt.
Speaker 3:And so I go to the Lord. I'm like like, lord, I know you said that we're supposed to trust you, and I do, um, but is there another way? Like you know, am I allowed to ask? And uh, he's like, well, trust me. And I was like, well, I need your help, you know, please send something.
Speaker 3:And um, two days later we got a donation and that covered everything from a guy that I do men's ministry with here in north carolina and he had no idea what we were doing there at all. Um, and I told him after he's like, man, that was so strange. He's like all week like I just couldn't get this number that I was supposed to give you out of my head. And he's like, finally I just relented and donated and I was like, well, it came at exactly the right time. And so those stories it's like, okay, it's worth the suffering. We'll see what happens next year or the next five years or the next 10 years. So you've got this ministry, good Soul Ministries. What happens next year or the next five years or the next 10?
Speaker 1:years, I think. So you've got this ministry good soul ministries. You sold your landscaping company this was 18 months ago, yeah and just launched out. How did that? How did that start? What did the Lord speak to you in? That transition, that's a big jump right, you're a family guy, your provider. I know people that are thinking about these kinds of things.
Speaker 3:You know how do you make a big jump midlife ryan tell us, tell us more about this big jump in life.
Speaker 1:He just keeps up and goes to the bathroom. Is this a first for the?
Speaker 3:podcast that that the host has gotten up, and left in the middle. It's not a first for ryan um, well, I I shared earlier that, uh, I spent a lot of time in business and faith at the same time. Like how do I live out my faith in Jesus? Create a workplace environment that's discipleship focused, provide an excellent service to our customers, but also an environment of connection and discipleship for the men that are working, guys that are getting passed over, probably by other exactly like giving guys an opportunity where they wouldn't.
Speaker 3:I mean, and that navigated through a lot of different ups and downs of I got to the point of I need to hire young guys as their first job so that they can get a a moment of knowing the Lord, because then that prevents the cycle of even going to prison, of even getting the homeless. Like the younger you can encounter somebody with real connection with the lord. Um, the greater chance of like avoiding massive like life failures because they know the source of wisdom. Um, but I mean, there's a lot of joy in that. Um, but the prayer room ministry that started in 2020, uh, it just slowly crept into everything and so it started out, you know, early mornings and evenings. Then at some point, I was like gosh, there's so much life transformation happening. What if we just set aside a whole day? And so then I set aside a whole day of and we're having 12 hours of just like constant flow of community and people like engaging with the heart of the Lord and like walking away different. And you know, for the prayer room, it's not like um, what you think of like IHOP, or you think of like a place where you go and you're just by yourself with the Lord. It's my wife and I together, like serving in our giftings, to invite and create an atmosphere of like let's be with Jesus together. And so that looks like starting with music. So what does it mean to just surrender and allow music which can access areas of our heart that maybe we don't even know about and say Holy Spirit, what do you want to say right now? What do you want to do right now, in this moment? And just entering into a time, time of listening, a time of surrender, 10 times out of 10 he highlights something and and then we just go wherever, wherever jesus has has led through that time of listening. Um, we'll talk through it some.
Speaker 3:Maybe it's inner healing, maybe it's not. Maybe it's just healing, maybe it's not. Maybe it's just silence together. Maybe it's some spiritual direction. Maybe we're opening up the word and we're reading like whole chapters of scripture together. Maybe we're going out and we're taking a walk, like I'm not there to decide what's going on. I'm there to be surrendered into the hands of the Lord so that he can lead us into whatever he wants.
Speaker 3:And so, whether that's a peaceful moment of just wow, jesus is here with us, we're just going to soak, or it's open heart surgery, like I need to remove a lie that you believed your whole life so that you can live differently with me. Um, it can look like a lot of different things and then we wrap up with, uh, with the time of journaling, and so it's very like heart focused and one-on-one, specific, more than a passive location just to go and and be, and the garden outside is a little different. Um, that's a little safer for some who aren't ready to enter into a intimate time like in a room. There's something about being outside, in nature. You know God's creation that we could have a casual conversation, that sometimes it goes really deep, really quick, um, but it's a, it's a little bit safer, and so so that transition, cause that's where we went from business right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Is uh transition, because that's where we went from business, right, yes, is uh, as we're doing this ministry, um, I'm becoming so you're doing that.
Speaker 1:Let me back up. You're doing that while you're also running a full-time, full-time landscaping like growing company code.
Speaker 3:We were an essential business, so we tripled in size. My wife was still working for a european, so she's getting up at two in the morning teaching classes for 200 kids. And in Europe, uh, music, uh, and we had, you know, this ministry that was just taking over all of our extra time.
Speaker 1:Um, and you have a family and a family, right, yeah, so you know there was.
Speaker 3:There was a lot of stuff that was going on all at the same time and we went through a burnout in the middle of that, which is probably a story for another day. But it was a moment of clarity, of really coming to the Lord and saying, okay, what are we doing and how do we continue. And then it got to a point I was down at a retreat somewhere and, uh, I was meeting with this couple and I had sat myself on a some stairs and I said, lord, if you want to bring anybody to me, I'm right here. You know who I am, you know how you like to love people through me, so I'm just going to be here.
Speaker 3:And this couple walks over and we start a conversation and very quickly we're in a deep place, like they're wrestling with something in their marriage and they're calling uh, they're both in ministry and they're so engaged with this conversation. They've got three kids and, like I'm talking with both of them, the husband's like, okay, you stay here, i'm'm going to go watch kids. Like he'd corral them, he'd come back and then we'd continue the conversation. And then his wife was like okay, you stay here, this time I'm going to go get the kids and, like the Lord is navigating.
Speaker 3:I know how those go this like moment for this couple where they're getting ministered to in a way that they didn't even know they needed and they had other plans, but they set it all aside. They're like we, we want to see where the Lord is taking this conversation. And so in the middle of this, I get a text message from a client, right and Carrie, and they're like my gardenias have all died. You better come replace them before this point. And so I look at it and I'm like, okay, like heart surgery, life transformation, change with the Lord, versus like some dead plants that are in your yard and you can't get them ready for your party that you're going to have this weekend. And so I put the phone away and I was like I don't know if I can do it anymore, like something in that moment it just hit me Like there is something that I'm called to and it's not to replace that gardenias. And like I came home from that conference. There were other things the lord did and spoke during the time there, but I came home and I was a mess, like I was a wreck, I couldn't. I just there was something that he'd done, like he'd shifted something in my heart that had yet to transfer into, like my ability to see it, and it's like there was a new operating system and I was downloading it and it's like I just shut down and like I'm telling my wife, I'm like I don't know what's going on, like I'm talking with friends. I'm like I don't know what's going on but like I can't, like there's something that hasn't rebooted yet for me to see. Um, but something happened.
Speaker 3:And so I go like three or four days, I guess the Sunday morning, sitting at church, um, my wife usually serves at church and so I don't usually go into service. I'm available to meet with whoever the Lord wants me to meet with. And so I'm sitting in my spot over in the corner just saying Lord, I'm here and I like sense the call. He's like Thomas, I'm calling you to be a minister of the gospel and I was like okay, so I write it down, right. Okay, lord, I accept, accept, you know this, this, this, and I sign my name and I date it. I'm like, ah, okay, that feels, that feels right. I don't know what just happened, because it was just me and the Lord, but he called, I agreed, I signed my name, awesome.
Speaker 3:And then my next thought was what well, what do I do now? Like if I've just accepted this call, like what does it look like? Where do I go? How do I, how do I engage with this? So I asked the Lord. I said, Lord, what do you want me to do? I felt like I was supposed to go over to this coffee shop. It's in the church kind of lobby. I get a coffee, I sit down. There's a guy sitting about where you're sitting across from me. Um, within 30 seconds of me sitting down, he leans in. He's like how, how, how do you know you've heard the voice of the lord? And like that's not a normal conversation, even in a church I don't know him, never met him before.
Speaker 3:You know, we talked about something casually and I said I'm so glad you asked and I went into how do you discern the voice of the lord, you know? Does it align with scripture? Do you have a community that also knows his heart, that you can go to, that you can ask, so that you're actually listening to the voice of the lord and not a voice that's your own imagination, that you're, you know, imprinting on what is the Lord? And this couple sitting next to us is like oh wow, we really needed to hear this conversation. Like we were driving in today, you know we're from out of state, and we felt like the Lord was telling us something and like now we know it's, it's true and you know.
Speaker 3:So we prayed together and I didn't make it into service at all, like it was one divine appointment through another divine appointment of just meeting with people and engaging with them on a heart level so that they connect with the Lord on a heart level. And that's my life. Now, lord, I'm available. Where do you want me to go? Who do you want to meet and how can I be obedient to you? And so that looks like a lot of different things and a lot of different places in the world, but it's really simple, lord.
Speaker 1:I'm here, send me. How did the money problem get solved?
Speaker 3:Which money problem?
Speaker 1:Well, that's probably revealing my own heart, but just in the way.
Speaker 2:I asked it.
Speaker 1:But like how do you fund this? Is everything divine, Is everything miraculous? Did you start with some seed?
Speaker 3:money. So no, we did not start with seed money. It was the very beginning. We were in Estonia, Um, so I experienced this call. It's probably October, you know. I had to wrestle through what that really looked like, Cause I thought, wow, I'll set aside the business, I'll still be a founder Like I, can still draw an income you know like I. I started this thing. It's making money Like I should.
Speaker 1:I mean I, I earned that right.
Speaker 3:I, it's, it's mine. We're in Estonia for Christmas time. It's after Christmas, before new years, and I feel like the Lord says, trust me. I'm like, okay, yeah, of course I trust you. He's no, trust me.
Speaker 3:And I knew what he was saying because I was still drawing a paycheck. So I had said, yes, lord, I answer your call, I'm going to go and minister wherever you want. I mean, crazy things were happening in Estonia. I don't need to get into all of that, um, but he's ministering through us in some powerful ways there. And so I said, okay, so I go to my wife. I'm like, hey, lord wants us to trust him and to do that. It means that we need to cut ourselves off payroll from the company that we own and just trust him to provide. And you can imagine that the response is not necessarily wow, that sounds great, honey, let's go and do it.
Speaker 3:But we both talked and we prayed and we got on our knees before the Lord and we held hands and we said, jesus, we are going to trust you and we're going to live on whatever you give us, and if that's a simple life, then we'll live a simple life. And then I thought, okay, well, this is great. What do you do? Like, what's the next thing you do? You write a newsletter. Right, you got to let people know you got it. I mean, if people don't know, how are they going to support? And I sit down on the computer, I try to start crafting a great message, like I know how to do sales and I can't write it. And I feel like the lord says I don't need your help to supply what I've called you to. And I thought, well, that's great. Then how does this work? Because, uh, I don't know another way besides you know the way that I?
Speaker 1:I see, are you just gonna wire money to my account, lord and um, like I'm we're there.
Speaker 3:I'm there in estonia. This guy sends me a message on whatsapp. He's like thomas, it's like really early in the morning the lord just woke me up. I feel like I'm supposed to give you some money. He's like how do I do that? And like we didn't have a website, there was no. Like there was one paypal link that went into the um. Does he even know you're not? He doesn't even know.
Speaker 1:Like there were. So he sends me a message landscaping company.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna send him money sends me a message, right, and he knows we're in estonia. But, um, and he sends money and I thought, oh, okay, well, that's cool, that's a one-time thing, like that, that feels great. Uh, literally the last 18 months that that has been our provision, it's been people reaching out and saying the Lord put on my heart, I'm, I'm supposed to give you this, you know, and how that works, I don't know. You can, you can ask him how that works. I don't know, you can, you can ask him how that works. Um, it's made us appreciate everything.
Speaker 3:I mean, we had a lady this past summer. I mean I'm sitting eating my breakfast in estonia, just like lord, like we need something, like we need food to eat this week, like please help, and we get a knock on the door and a lady hands me an envelope. She says the lord told me to give this to you and it's got 20 euros in it. Now, two summers ago I'd be like, oh, that's cute, 20 euros. This past summer, I was like thank you, like that's, that's our literal dinner, thank you, you know, it was the sweetest 20 euros I think I've ever seen, because I was in need and he met that need in that moment through this lady who has very meager income. But she heard the Lord and she came and was obedient to that, and so I wish I had a better answer.
Speaker 1:That's the best answer.
Speaker 3:I'd love to be like yeah, this is our marketing campaign, this is how we let everybody know, Just do this. But it's Lord, you know what we need. Show us the way.
Speaker 1:It's pretty radical obedience. And then came pretty radical provision. And then came pretty radical provision, Like to the measure of the craziness with which you obeyed. It's the same level of craziness with which the provision is coming. I mean, you said yes to some pretty wild things.
Speaker 3:This is inspiring to me Every time I think, all right, this is the craziest story. Like we've reached whatever level of like ridiculous place of ministering and you know miraculous thing that he's done. He just continues to up it and so I'm just like I give up. Lord, it's not about me, it's clearly not my gifting, it's you and you've just chosen to work through me in these moments and so I don't have any control over it.
Speaker 3:Like I can't come home from one of these trips and pat myself on the back Thomas, you did a great job because it wasn't me which means I can't just turn it on, I can't just be like, oh yeah, let me go and just activate myself into what the Lord, I don't have any control, but I know that I can just say Lord, I'm here, what do you want to do? You know, church. Two Sundays ago I took my grandparents with me they're both 88 and my son Malachi, who's six months, and my wife was up on worship, and so I'm corralling the family, like you know, baby grandparents and I had no time to do what I would normally do when we go to churches. Lord, I'm full, I'm ready. Who do you want to engage with?
Speaker 3:Like I'm ready to pray for somebody to love on somebody you know I'm here and so I go through and it's getting to the end of second service. You know we're about to go to lunch and I'm a little bit frustrated because I'm like man. I mean, it was like worship was great, the message was great, but I really missed being activated. Like I felt like I was just babysitting and like this guy walks past me, probably about 10 feet away, and as he's walking past I'm like I need to pray for that guy, um, but I'm corralling the grandparents and the you know baby and uh, so I get everybody to the car, get them all loaded up. You know we're going to go eat at the cafeteria.
Speaker 3:If you're old, that's where you go, um, and I see this guy standing over smoking a cigarette and I look and I'm like I'm supposed to go pray for this guy. And then I'm wrestling with the Lord. I'm like no, like the baby's going to start crying, like everybody's going to be grumpy. My wife has been playing worship like just just drive away, and I was like what?
Speaker 3:am I doing Like it's walking over and it's asking a guy can I pray for you? I'm literally in full-time ministry. Why would I not? Like, am I risking public embarrassment? Like amen, let's do more of that for the gospel. And so I get over myself, basically, and get over the responsibilities. I hop out of the car. I walk straight up to him. I say hey, what's your name? He tells me his name. I said I don't know why. Maybe this is weird, I feel like I'm supposed to pray for you.
Speaker 3:And he's like well, I'm a Muslim. I was like, oh really, what are you doing here at a Christian church? And we had a quick heart-to-heart moment. I shared the gospel with him and I prayed over him and gave him a hug. And then I got back in my car and was smiling all the way to the cafeteria because I was like, thank you, lord, for activating me in that moment, in the midst of caring for all the people. He knew that that guy needed to be loved on in a way that he designed me to love on people. And so, as he was walking past, even in the midst of all the other things, it was, there go, I have a mission for you. Like that is exciting to me. That's not things that I can plan, that's not something that I can organize. That is something that I can be available to. What are you hearing, ryan?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm wondering what you're thinking. Ryan, you're over here just like I could tell you. Go to the bathroom again, guys.
Speaker 3:What's underneath that you know broad statement of it's a powerful story, buddy.
Speaker 2:Your time is up.
Speaker 1:No, it's not. We can go part two Something of what. Thomas is. The things Thomas is saying are poking and prodding at stuff in you. I can tell.
Speaker 2:Oh, really you can.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe it's the nervous twitch of your foot or your arms that are crossed, or the nervous laugh that you're giving off.
Speaker 2:What are you talking about? Or the fact that you haven't said one thing in 45 minutes?
Speaker 3:Your voice seems to raise a few octaves.
Speaker 2:Even a fool seems wise when he keeps his mouth shut. Thomas, Good thing you're. Even a fool seems wise when he keeps his mouth shut thomas.
Speaker 3:Good thing you're not a fool.
Speaker 1:This is good so you can either share.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna ask thomas to pray for you to close this out live on the recording I like that, let's do that okay, I think I think we should share.
Speaker 1:First don't don't rob the listeners all right of the gold that that's there that the lord is bringing to the surface oh man, can we cut the recording?
Speaker 3:if it's too personal, I'm sure we can edit it out later, but there's a, there's a. There's a moment right here that I don't think we should leave.
Speaker 1:It's so funny. You said that because we literally say that at the beginning of the podcast usually, and now you're saying it to Ryan.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, do you want?
Speaker 3:to take a moment and ask the Lord first.
Speaker 2:I don't need to.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:I was telling Warren, I was aggravated because the podcast before you was a guy named Scott Lichen and is within our circle of people, but he is the pastor at Antioch Boone and he's in his sixties and he said he was in business and he wanted to do ministry and he had just had his fourth child and his wife asked him a question If money wasn't an object, what would you do? And he was like I would be a pastor. And she was like okay, well then why don't you do that? And so, like I don't know, is it the next week, the next day, I don't remember he went in and was like I'm quitting.
Speaker 1:He's like write me out of the budget and I'm not gonna be here yeah.
Speaker 2:And he said I don't have a plan, I don't know where I'm going, I don't even know what I'm gonna do, but I know that I'm going to be a pastor, so I'm just gonna do that. And I was aggravated because he did think he was going to be in seminary. He said that yeah, yeah, that is true.
Speaker 1:He said I'm gonna go to seminary and see where that goes, but I'm like, oh man, pursuing ministry full-time seems difficult thomas, can I ask you, if you were to go back and do it again, would you do the hybrid thing or would you just jump all in?
Speaker 3:I would say that I wouldn't even call it a hybrid thing, because the season of business as ministry and ministry as business was exactly what the Lord had for me during that season, and so, rather than it being that I was missing out on something by not saying yes, I was in training and preparation so that when I received the call, I had the maturity to actually walk it out, and so I think it's less about you know, because some guys are called to that.
Speaker 3:I was called to that first season.
Speaker 3:There's absolutely nothing wrong with being in the business world as a minister of the gospel Like we need more of that and there's nothing wrong with setting everything aside and saying I feel like the Lord has called me to be a full-time minister, and whatever way or form or function that looks whether it's a parachurch, church or global impact the safest place that I can be is the center of the Lord's will for my life, of the Lord's will for my life, and so, like safety is not in creating wealth, safety is not in a positional title, safety is not in owning, you know, material goods.
Speaker 3:Safety is being in the center of the Lord's will, and that means saying yes, regardless of the cost, because there's always a cost, but the cost is worth it, but I don't get the privilege of seeing it being worth it until after I take the step. You know, a step of faith is faith and hope in what is unseen, and so, for me, every time there's an invitation and, ryan, there's an invitation and Ryan, there's a death in there somewhere I heard, I heard you talk about that, you know and then there's seeing what that actually means. Um, and so for you, ryan, I would share with you that the safest place that you can lead your family is through, through being obedient to the Lord's call in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because the Lord's will is going to be accomplished. Like we know, the story of Jonah right, no, going the other way, no, you're not. Begrudgingly walks through town. Everyone, sackcloth, ashes, whole town saved Lord, why did you have to do that? Oh, just kill me now. Like I mean, the lord's will was accomplished through through his life. Was he a willing participant kind of? But he was robbed of the joy of the fruit of that because his heart was not fully given to trusting, and there's stories of those whose hearts have been fully given to trusting. That doesn't mean that it looks safe from a worldly standpoint, but we're passing through, we're visitors here, we have a short time that we've been gifted on earth to live out and let him live through us what he's called us to do, and so whatever fear or misgivings are getting in the way of being obedient, like, put that to rest and if he said something, he's going to bring it to fruition oh man, I know, that's true that's really good so what does obedience look like for you?
Speaker 3:I I I love that. I love that we're on air now. This is fantastic, it's so good everyone that was listening for the last hour. They just actually tuned in, like their ears just pricked up and they're like something's happening unexpected, like give me some popcorn because I want to watch I I feel like I am made to be wholehearted somewhere and I have not been wholehearted the last two years.
Speaker 2:so I want to been wholehearted the last two years, so I want to be wholehearted and I'm trusting that. I'm trusting that the Lord will start closing doors in business if, like I am supposed to go into ministry full time.
Speaker 3:That does answer the question.
Speaker 2:What kind of answer do you want me to answer? This would be easier for me. Just tell me what you want to hear.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'll ask it a different way. Is there a step of obedience that he's made clear for you that either you've been unwilling or unable to take?
Speaker 2:on your own. Yeah, so I feel like the Lord has finally led me to a place of whatever decision you make, make it wholehearted and it will be good, whether that's to pursue business and it doesn't work out, and so he pushes me like a Jonah thing, where he pushes me to ministry or there really is no wrong choice that it's going to lead with the same outcome. And I feel like the past couple of months I've finally gotten to the place of like I'm not. I think for the last two years I've been trying to figure out how do I do both ministry effectively and business effectively. Like I can't. I can't do both effectively. I think part of the reason why I haven't released control over that control over the situation is because I want freedom to do what I want. So there's probably pride there. But then natural wisdom or worldly wisdom says well, you have to be a good steward of what you have. So I have almost this kind of guilt for potentially choosing ministry full-time, because that's not what I should do.
Speaker 3:Air quotes who's telling you that you did invite me here so?
Speaker 1:I'm popping popcorn right now.
Speaker 2:I. I feel like the Lord is telling me to be wholehearted. So that's I'm meeting with someone two days from now to talk about hey, I'm going to draw out what I want with a business partnership, and if that doesn't go as planned, then I'm going to move on and just say, okay, that's not the Lord's will.
Speaker 3:When have you experienced wholeheartedness?
Speaker 2:That's a good question, wholeheartedness man, I don't know how to answer that question because there's been different seasons of time in life what about moments?
Speaker 1:moments like leading the men's retreat in Antioch. I mean to be perfectly honest, you looked like you were completely wholehearted in that moment.
Speaker 2:I was. I was definitely wholehearted in that 100%. I think any type of ministry thing because now that I'm actually thinking about it any time I feel wholehearted at work is around some sort of is around some sort of when I pray for a customer or they encounter like an experience with the Lord, like that. That is what brings me back to doing like owning a business.
Speaker 3:That is what brings me back to doing like owning a business. So there's a dot over here and there's a dot over here.
Speaker 2:You want to connect them. Can you just pray?
Speaker 1:for me, so we can move on. This is so great because we asked Thomas about his life and his ministry. He told us all about it and now we get to see it in action.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, the Lord's gonna connect the dots.
Speaker 3:yeah, I think he already has when are you gonna agree with him?
Speaker 1:here's another thing. Do you wanna be ping ponging off of closed doors or do you wanna be expectantly looking for open doors?
Speaker 2:No, it's quite enough, Chris. That sounds good. Well, no, no, I just don't want you to talk anymore, for the sake of the viewers right, we're not here for ourselves.
Speaker 3:Right, we're here because the lord put on your heart to create a podcast, to have real. I mean, what did you say at the beginning? What was the tagline?
Speaker 2:yeah, uncommon path uncommon path.
Speaker 3:Okay, so what I heard is there's an uncommon path that you've received an invitation to walk, but it looks so uncommon that you're hesitant to take the step. And so, for the sake of the viewers and those that are listening, like, what are you feeling right now?
Speaker 2:Oh man, oh man. I just want to write, I just want to go where it's comfortable. I want to be out of this room somewhere without you guys here oh man, okay, we've got past that emotion I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3:No, no, we're, I'm not gonna. I don't want to dig past the point where your capacity and you shut down. Yes, and we're getting close to it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:But there's a desire to run.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like there's a desire to escape.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:But this is a safe place.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love you yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm sure these guys love you. The Lord loves you and we're all here together. And so this is safe. I can't think of a safer place, and so why would?
Speaker 2:you want to run away from a safe place? Well, I actually don't know the answer to that. Maybe I don't want to feel. Maybe I don't want to. Maybe part of it feels like I feel pressured to give an answer that I'm not yet fully ready to step into. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Like you know what the answer is, but you don't want to make it publicly known because then there's pressure to fill it potentially yeah or is there something about speaking out loud that takes it from a?
Speaker 3:I think, like a conceptual idea to a concrete reality which once you see it, that means there's actually something to do with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I think owning it and saying it out loud brings reality to the idea more than like just thinking about it or processing it internally. Yeah, and it's scary, scary to. Yeah, think potentially about doing ministry full time what was that again?
Speaker 1:something leaked out.
Speaker 3:I, just I, I heard, I heard something.
Speaker 2:It feels scary to potentially do ministry full time.
Speaker 3:Good, it should.
Speaker 2:That's true. So what's next? Talking with leslie, praying about it with her? Whenever you ask me questions like this, I always want to ask it in a question because I'm like is that the right answer?
Speaker 3:there's not a right answer. There's, there's a. There's an.
Speaker 2:There's an honest answer the honest answer is I do need to be on the same page with leslie and I want to be on the same page with leslie. I think fear behind the asking her, talking to her about it as if she is on board, because if she is on board, then there is no excuse to lean on anymore.
Speaker 3:So the same Lord that speaks to you can speak to your wife, correct?
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:And if he's called you to be married, then you're one, which would mean that the calling isn't just for you.
Speaker 2:It's for your family. Yeah, it's definitely. Yeah, it would be all of us on mission.
Speaker 3:When you say that out, loud, what feelings come with it?
Speaker 2:a gravity and a weight that feels humbling, at the same time scary so there's a weight of responsibility yeah, yeah, yeah, I couldn't actually put it to words, but yeah, yeah, I feel responsible, which I shouldn't feel that way, but I definitely feel that way.
Speaker 1:When the Lord calls you to something and you know it's him, it takes pressure off. Not putting pressure on Should, in my opinion. For example, my son Theo, my fifth child, my Jonah experience that I ran away from having for a while, but the Lord had brought it to happen anyways he has been. He's a very adventurous boy. Multiple trips to the hospital I had four sons never called poison control, called poison control for Theo three times. He's broken his arm at two years old. He's just a wild maniac and I've thought at times I've been fearful for like his safety because he's so wild. And then I remember Lord called me to have this child and the pressure goes away, that fear goes away and I'm like surely the Lord ordained this, I don't have to worry about it. I mean, obviously I have to be responsible but I don't have to have an inordinate fear that he's going to take away something that he told me to have. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:yeah saying yes to him is a relinquishing responsibility.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, saying yes to him is a relinquishing responsibility.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and surrendering, and he's now the boss. Yeah yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Speaker 3:You're not a small business owner in the kingdom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the king is actively working through you as an extension of himself.
Speaker 3:He's gonna build his church Because that's his good pleasure to do so, and if he chooses you when he chooses you, in whatever way that looks like, it's the most satisfaction you're ever going to experience in life, yeah, that's good. It's not up to you.
Speaker 2:Success and failure is off the table. Yeah, we already know how it ends.
Speaker 3:What are you hearing?
Speaker 2:I received that. I receive that. Yeah, as you were sharing, I was like I choose to receive that truth instead of believe it. So, like knowing it, like I know that, but I choose to receive it, yeah which changes reality. You look different. I was going to, I don't. I didn't believe you, but then why did you? What did you?
Speaker 1:do y'all agree with that?
Speaker 2:You look lighter For real. Wow, that's so bizarre.
Speaker 3:You feel lighter.
Speaker 2:I do feel lighter.
Speaker 1:A lot of this podcast. I'd look over at you and it looked like you were just like under weight or under pressure really yeah hmm, yeah, I feel lighter.
Speaker 2:For sure, it's crazy. You can notice that. You can notice that.
Speaker 3:So what would you share with your listeners?
Speaker 2:I would like for you to pray for me and close this out Any other questions?
Speaker 1:No, that's exactly what I wanted. I thought, let's have Thomas close us out.
Speaker 2:It's perfect, oh man, thank you. Thank you for digging, appreciate that.
Speaker 3:The wounds of a friend are faithful.
Speaker 1:I was just going to say it.
Speaker 3:The wounds of a friend are faithful A little too faithful.
Speaker 3:Deep are the waters in the heart of a man, but a man of understanding will draw it out. Lord, thank you for this time that we could share with you. Thank you for the deep waters that you have placed inside of ryan, for the way that you have formed his heart and his mind to reflect you in a way that's so inviting. Lord, we've talked about a lot of things today, and so we just ask you, holy Spirit, to highlight in the minds of those that are listening right now what's most important. What is it about our conversation today? The stories that you want to use to open their hearts to you.
Speaker 3:Jesus, we pray over Ryan that you will continue to unburden him from things that have kept him from walking freely in the way you've designed him to, as a husband, as a father, as a minister and as a small business owner. Lord, we surrender him into your hands. You'll lead him and his wife that, as they take steps of obedience, that it won't be steps that come from human wisdom, it won't be steps that seem like a good idea on paper, but steps that you have spoken and invited them to trust you in their marriage and in their family and with the business. Lord, you know Ryan, you know his heart, you know that tendency to run. So, father, I ask that you be the safest place for him to run to. Father, I ask that you be the safest place for him to run to Speak to his heart. Remind him that he's enough in you. Remind him how much you love him. Jesus, we thank you. We love you, amen.
Speaker 1:I almost feel like I should thank Ryan for being on this podcast, but I'm going to say Thomas, thanks for being on the podcast. This was awesome. Thanks for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3:This was awesome. Thanks for the invitation. Thank you.
