Speaker 1: 0:06

this is the uncommon path. I'm your host, ryan medlin. I'm joined here with my co-host, christopher flowers. Hello, today we have elizabeth jackson in the house. I'm super excited, excited, basically, elizabeth, in this podcast. This is kind of just something. We want to be loosely structured, so feel free to run with anything you want to run with, but kind of overarching idea is we want to know a glimpse of your past with the Lord, where it started, um, kind of how God grabbed onto your heart, if that was like a moment, um, or if that was a process, and then kind of the journey from that to motherhood, marriage, um, and then what is God doing now? What does God have for you in the future?

Speaker 2: 1:01

So you know, Andrea and I have these five sons and we homeschool them.

Speaker 2: 1:08

We is very you know that's not a very great term, it's more like she does and I financially support the endeavor familiar, common homeschool dynamic, but we haven't had a lot of people, really, except for you to look to and say, all right, this, um, this looks like something that we can do and it's successful and the kids are turning out good and the marriage is doing good and you know it's there, you can do this and thrive. And raising boys has got its own unique challenges and you have three boys. You've homeschooled them pretty much all right.

Speaker 3: 1:51

Yeah, except the last one. He transitioned to private school.

Speaker 2: 1:55

So that's something that, when I think of you guys, I think that has brought us a lot of comfort over the years, because we're in our eighth year of homeschooling now and I don't know if you're like us, but dealing with burnout. Oh, totally Like yearly quitting every day. I don't know, how many times we had the. What school are we going to send these guys to next year?

Speaker 3: 2:18

discussion.

Speaker 2: 2:19

Um, but it just, we just keep feeling called to come back and just do it, and do it, and do it, but we just keep feeling called to come back and just do it, and do it, and do it, and it's now finally like feeling awesome, but I just think one. I know how hard that is and I think you guys did a really good job raising boys and it's been a source of like encouragement to us because you're further down the road.

Speaker 3: 2:41

Right.

Speaker 2: 2:42

With your age years, kids and stuff and how long you've been married and whatnot. So that's been awesome for us to be kind of riding your coattails and seeing your success and trying to emulate it and yeah. I know Andrea's called you a few times, like probably with the panic button.

Speaker 3: 2:59

Yeah, yeah, I will say that I grew up declaring to my mom, who was a stay-at-home mom in a season where stay-at-home moms were not really treasured and valued, and she'd get questions like oh, what do you do all day while your kids are at school? And it just wasn't something that was prized. And now we've seen the fruit of that and how it is important to not have latchkey children and both parents just be MIA all the time. You know, statistically, and just you know, we, just we just know that you know through how the word of God, you know, communicates, how we should do family and what that should look like.

Speaker 3: 3:41

Um, but all that to say, um, even though I was raised in a home that valued having the mom more present, the parents more present, I would brag that I was going to have four boys, be married and work a full-time job and that I was going to do all of it, that I would never stay home with my kids. And so, um, yeah, that was not my plan. My plan was to have a career, and when we got to the point where our first son was going to need to go to school, brad, my husband was like I'm not sending him to public school. I'm the product of the public school system and I just can't imagine doing that. And then he also said and we do not have money to be able to afford private schooling. And so my, my aunt, had homeschooled my cousins I had heard about that, you know observed that a little bit, and so I was like, well, we could maybe check that out little bit. And so I was like, well, we could maybe check that out.

Speaker 3: 4:49

And um, and then I thought too, well, maybe this might give me a way to kind of have something to put my hand to, where I just don't feel like I have a capacity to put my kids on the bus every day and be at the house, you know, doing just the conventional homemaking stuff, which is amazing. It just wasn't something I felt really drawn to to do alone, felt like I wanted something, something more. And so that was how we made that decision of we wanted to take more ownership of a better education, discipling our kids more intentionally and then also giving me, you know, basically something to grow and something to build. And so it very much was like my business kind of a thing that I was growing and building, and it was the CEO, the CFO, all the things had no idea how incredibly challenging that was going to be, but also, at the same time, how it really did.

Speaker 3: 5:46

It really was just just the sweetness of the Lord, um, where he knew that the way that I was wired, it was going to give me the satisfaction and the joy of, of vocationally pouring myself into a craft, into you know, um, a position that I could. I could do both. It just didn't look the way that I thought it was going to look. And by far, um, the other little things that I really cared about and longed for I loved art, I loved music, um, I love gardening. I just had a lot of different like hobbies that I really would long to do.

Speaker 3: 6:24

Homeschooling the kids made it possible for me to continue to sew to those things and incorporate those things into just the way that we did school, um, and I think I think maybe and maybe this is you know, Ryan, you had asked a question earlier and now I think I have the answer. But your question about you know, Ryan, you had asked a question earlier and now I think I have the answer. But your question about you know what, is something that no one probably specifically knows, that I would be too humble to brag about, and I think that would be how that my heart and it's a generational thing. I got a lot of that from my dad because it was something that he walked in, that I learned from and I caught growing up. But one of the deepest longings of my heart is that myself and my family, including my kids, carried a deep value for worship and for music, and it wasn't anything that was forced, but because it was something I was practicing at home, it was very irresistible to the rest of the kids, and so all of them pouring themselves into teaching themselves instruments, worshiping alone in their rooms, wanting to do worship nights as families, wanting to start worship nights and inviting youth into our home that whole thing I do know it was something that I treasured in my heart and I faithfully steward in my own life, and my kids caught that and that is something that I know without a shadow of a doubt.

Speaker 3: 8:00

That came through my dad, through me, through our line, and because it was treasured and valued it was. It was the most beautiful, almost most effortless thing in the world that has yielded probably the biggest amount of fruit, where it's like I just can't even believe how that that just happened. Um, and just the, the type of connection and just shared heart that that I have with each of my sons. Because of that, Um, I mean there would be times that, yeah, like I think one of the first songs I ever wrote it was my oldest son. He said can you come in the room for a second?

Speaker 3: 8:41

He was like I'm just playing this melody on this keyboard and I feel like there's a song in here, and then I'm like all right, and so I just I lay down on his bed while he's playing and then I just start singing and like just this entire song came out and within 30 minutes this whole song was written and it was just the most beautiful thing, and it was like we just wrote a song together, through the inspiration of Holy Spirit, um, and that song ended up actually being recorded, you know, and being valued to the point that, uh, a friend of mine wanted to use it as a graduation project to finish his degree program, um, and it was just just stuff like that. That's just like man, like through choosing what God wanted, the way God wanted, whether it was hidden, it was unconventional, um, it was nuanced, um. I think that's probably one of the things that I'm just the most proud of.

Speaker 3: 9:40

Um but I don't feel like I don't look to brag on it because it's just enough just getting to see it manifest. You know, whether it's, you know, on a Sunday morning or it's walking into their bedroom and being surprised by what they're doing, you know they're just carrying that and that just brought me probably the most joy. I think, out of everything Wasn't the sports, wasn't the academics, or even their strong work ethic, because they all carry a very strong work ethic, own and knowing people. Um, that was definitely probably the biggest win that I'm thankful that I had the courage to surrender and say yes to and to treasure that, um, because it translated.

Speaker 1: 10:34

So, wow, so was it. That was more of. It sounds like that was more of an overflow for you, and then the kids caught on more than you being intentional about setting culture for them right?

Speaker 3: 10:48

Yeah, it wasn't this, you know, you've got your calculated. Like, oh, you should take a music class if you would like to learn an instrument as part of your, you know, elective, or something like. Yeah, of course there was that piece. But yeah, to your point about like, was there this? Like I'm carrying this mantle and I'm going to, you know, forge it. No, it was just. This is just who I am and who I was. You know, it was very catching and and yeah, and so, just through, through my, I was able to integrate the things that I cared about and I was able to grow and learn with them. The things that I cared about and I was able to grow and learn with them.

Speaker 3: 11:29

Um, even like heart for missions, heart for mercy, ministry, like we, we, we arranged, even like history and geography around every day, we're going to have a picnic outside and I'm reading missionary biographies, because that's what I want to grow in and then that's how they came to the Lord. I mean reading one story out of a missionary biography one day one of my sons said I want to give my life to Jesus. It all just happened in this family homeschooling, just occupying, where you are working with what you have and not looking for. Oh, I'm just begrudging the fact that we don't have money to put them in school so I can get a job. It's like, okay, there's something here, there's resources here, there's everything you're looking for is at hand, but you have to look for it, you know, and if you don't turn your head and look, you know, in a different direction, you can get so focused on it, looking a certain way, that you really miss the good stuff and you've really, like, despised the birthright, honestly, for a bowl of soup like Esau. You know.

Speaker 3: 12:28

Like you just and despising is like you're just not valuing it. You know, it's like when you hear despise you can think hate like well, yeah, I guess you do hate something if you don't choose it, you know. But it's like you don't even have to look at that word despise that harshly. It's just you don't recognize its worth and you just trade it for something far lesser and you have no idea what you have forfeited. It's just incredible. It was a far lesser thing to choose the path that was laid out before me, um a far greater thing to choose that path than to try to force what the framework of what I thought it should look like.

Speaker 1: 13:11

Was it? Was it a hard process for you to become undone to get on board with homeschooling? If you're, does that make sense? Like if you, if you wanted a career, like was it a begrudging thing or was it something that you had to go to the Lord for, and he kind of changed your heart on it?

Speaker 3: 13:38

I think I was dealt more of a forced hand. I was very aware of where we were financially and, having worked vocationally in church, it was like that. That was kind of where I would have to go back to, or at least what was available to me, and the pay was there was no way like just nothing about the whole setup, you know, was really. I mean I could just logically look at that and be like this isn't even ideal. Like my hand, my hand has been dealt so initially it wasn't difficult and I like starting things and building things and so that felt in the moment exciting, like okay, I can just get all right. You know this is going to be great.

Speaker 3: 14:22

I think where it got harder was six, seven, eight years into it. You know just getting really bored. You know the nights and days all looking the same and then, and then doing something for a really long time, you find out like I just had a bad year, like it was just a bad year, not like a bad day or a bad week, it was like this whole school year was just not great.

Speaker 3: 14:50

And I think when you go through those, you know it does just that longevity, like you know, seeing it through, you know we all get to a point where we just get tired. We get so into the weeds and into the middle that we, we lose sight of what the beginning was, what what made us say yes, and then, seeing it through to the end, and how great the end could be. We just we get lost and so we just we have to recenter ourselves and we have to get back into alignment. And you know, sometimes you do have to take a step backwards, like, right, we just I need to take a couple of months off and I don't care that we're not going to get all this stuff done. We're just stopping school in March this year, you know, and just trusting God, like you're, you're building these kids, like a lot of this stuff is repeat, repeat from K through 12. Like I'm just going to cut my losses and protect the vision and the heart and the calling, and so even like not being as focused on the productivity or the academics, and just, you know, just like just trying to keep all that in its proper tension of, like you know, anything worth doing is worth doing well, and also anything worth doing is also worth doing poorly, like I'm going to have to do this poorly right now because I need I need to to kind of get back where I need to be to see this through. I'm playing the long game here, you know, and I've just I've been running too hard or I've been injured too much, you know, with whatever it is, and I just need to tap out for a bit and regroup, um, so I can get back on the wagon again, you know.

Speaker 3: 16:22

And so I think it was a lot harder to recognize when I found myself in those places along the way, um, but what was really cool about that is that when I would get to those places, it was usually times of transition, where God was bringing us into a new, creative way to sustain the next few years and revive it with something fresh, to sustain the next few years and revive it with something fresh, and so that really started to hit Goodness.

Speaker 3: 16:53

Our oldest was in middle school, and so we found this co-op, and then that opened the door for me to teach a worship band class.

Speaker 3: 17:03

That infused so much joy, so much excitement into continuing the homeschooling, because I had this creative outlet where I was able to like, coach these kids and and really bring a freshness into this co-op and into the worship and um, and so that was very life-giving for me, um, and all the while not even realizing that it was actually preparing me to, and all the while not even realizing that it was actually preparing me to go to work part time.

Speaker 3: 17:27

When I was asked to step into worship pastor role, I'd been doing that for three years before that happened. And then, when that opportunity happened for me to kind of be absent, so to speak, to a small degree, my kids were in a place where that was doable. They were old enough, there was enough of them being able to be with me or stay home alone or like it just worked. And so it's just been really neat to see how that has ebbed and flowed. I've been, you know, off and on, vocationally employed and non-employed throughout that journey, while homeschooling and parenting as well. There's just been these really great exchanges, you know.

Speaker 2: 18:08

I love that you call that. You actually phrased it as like a vocation, like your outlook on it was like okay, cool, I can do this, this will be something I can build right.

Speaker 2: 18:18

Because I think sometimes the hesitation people that you know, we we talked to a lot of people interested in homeschool, I'm sure you have have as well there's sometimes a hesitation of like, well, but I have these ambitions and these talents and these degrees and whatever I want to produce and build and feel fruitful and and I think the from the outside looking in, it can look like, well, I'm not going to be very fruitful, I'm just going to be home teaching abcs to a five-year-old or whatever, and and in the sense that's true but in the long run, in the 18-year journey, you build something way more important than a business or a building or a closing deals or doing what I do for a living right, it's like you're shaping lives.

Speaker 2: 19:07

And you're actually shaping the lives of the people that you love the most. So I don't know that was more of a comment, but not to make this all about homeschool.

Speaker 3: 19:18

Yeah, it's just a chapter. Just a chapter, it's cool.

Speaker 2: 19:23

One of the things I see in your story though that was so cool is like how God weaves some of your desires and your callings into it, right. So, like the worship thing, the ability to structure, to teach a worship band class, like that's so cool, like that's such a neat opportunity and it parlayed into other things. One of the things that's been really neat with homeschooling that Andrew and I have well, really, it's her experience. It's like obviously we don't have daughters, right, so we tried going to daughters, but now because of our friends that Samuel's's friends and isaac's friends and stuff through the homeschool community we have, you know, there's girls in our house all the time they're doing school with, with our boys, and so we get a little bit of that flavor of like what's it like to have, you know, girls in the house, very different dynamic. Yeah, surprisingly, it actually makes the boys focus better, because they're very focused and my boys are very not.

Speaker 3: 20:32

Very true, very true.

Speaker 1: 20:37

All right, let's backtrack a little bit. So what started your journey with the Lord? Where did that start?

Speaker 3: 20:47

Well, I was raised in a Christian home, so essentially from birth.

Speaker 1: 20:53

One of those. Yes, one of those.

Speaker 3: 20:57

But I would say I always had a complicitness with the concept of following the Lord and going to church and reading your Bible like that. I didn't go through a season where it was like I don't know if this you know God thing is for me, like that was never a part of my story, even though you know, I raised my hand and went down to the front when I was five and then did it again so I could have a spiritual birthday when I was nine because, I couldn't remember when I was five, you know, went through all those things.

Speaker 3: 21:28

Um, I would really say that, um, I felt like I came to the most memorable, significant crisis of belief when I was 24 years old, 25 years old. Our oldest son he was two years old he was misdiagnosed with a rare infectious disease and then he had an undocumented reaction to the blood infusion that he needed to. When they finally did diagnose him properly and he had not been diagnosed within the window of treatment, like there was all of these things, all that to say. You know we're in duke children's hospital and you know the cat scans, the spinal taps, all the things trying to figure out like what's going on and is he going to make it? Um, I was just like weeping, and and by and and he, and by that point he was actually stable. And Brad was like, like why are you crying? Like he's, he's going to be okay, he's going to be okay. And I was like I'm not crying because of that. I'm crying because the first thought that came into my mind when it looked like he was going to die is that, God, if you take him from me, I'm done with you. And I'm crying because I can't believe that I was actually capable of having that thought and I just don't know what to do with it. And it was just an invitation to come to the Lord and so that was hugely significant and I'll preface that with.

Speaker 3: 23:04

I had a miscarriage before him. When I got pregnant with him they told me it was ectopic. That ended up obviously not being the case, but that was what they declared and I had to like process that and then find out he was going to be fine. And then, when I was three months along with him, I had a freak car accident and started bleeding and they thought I was miscarrying him. So there was like three different times that there was this like false positive death sentence over his life and those were the things that I had bought into fear, not faith. Each time those things had happened, you know, with the miscarriage, the misdiagnosis, you know the car accident, and then this that happened On the heels of recognizing that, you know, refreshing my commitment to the Lord, I'm and something broke where I was like, wait a second. This is the third time that something has tried to take his life and it hasn't been successful.

Speaker 3: 24:09

Maybe I need to start thinking about this offensively of like well, you know, you, like, there was so many things that started manifesting in my life because of the fear to try to combat and have some sense of control out of this deep fear of losing him. I mean, he was basically my my God, my child was my idol because I was so afraid of losing him. Um, but that that was probably the most significant. Like I was forever changed, like markedly changed, in that moment and I'm just so thankful. You know, I was so shocked at what was inside of me that I was completely unaware of, but at the same time, I was absolutely grateful that I had been freed. I got instant healing and freedom in that moment of encounter. It was probably the most significant, that shaped me and really just changed me the most. I think there's been a lot of other great, significant moments along the way. I feel like we're always going through crises of belief, right.

Speaker 1: 25:22

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:23

Where we're believing more or choosing to believe again or still, but that was probably the most significant one.

Speaker 1: 25:30

Wow, was your childhood with your parents? Was it Like for me? I felt like I grew up in the church my entire life but I felt like there was almost no choice of what I could believe or what we were doing. Did it feel like it was kind of stuffed down your throat? Or was there a very early recognition of like relationship with Jesus, or relationship with God versus a belief in God?

Speaker 3: 26:05

Yeah, no, my, my, um, my parents both had pretty significant encounters with the Lord and then married right away and had me very shortly after. Their relationship with the Lord was very much real, um, but also learning how to follow Jesus. You know, nine months later having a baby, you know like they were growing and learning too. And so, um, I think I think, if I mean, it's a really good question to ask. I think, looking back on that, there was no question who they served and that was the expectation of the house, but it didn't feel like something I didn't want to do, so it didn't feel like it was stuffed down my throat for that. For that reason, um, um, and I think some of the significant seeds that you know will lead us into just me sharing about, like, what the Lord's doing now, and just part of my lifelong assignment that you know we're walking in is that I have just very vivid memories of being on the rooftop in downtown Orlando while my dad's ministering to bums and derelicts on the street, giving them coffee and donuts. They would play music like worship, music, lots of worship. And my dad, he went to Russia when the wall came down and did did some missions there. He did prison ministry.

Speaker 3: 27:26

Um, my parents, um, we, when we moved from Florida, it was just us four, and so they were always inviting people over for holidays or things, cause it was just us, you know.

Speaker 3: 27:38

And so there was just this constant exposure to mercy ministry and hospitality. And I think the word hospitality, a lot of times people don't realize hospitality is entertaining a stranger, fellowship is for people that you know, and so so I want, I want to make sure that word's clear, because it really was mostly hospitality. It was very much people that oh well, so-and-so, you know, is around and they don't have anybody, but we didn't know them. They later became friends, you know, but a lot of times it was more. It was really like bonafide hospitality, you know, and then just mercy ministry, and so that really wet my appetite for wanting to operate that way. And then they carried the skills to actually do it. Well, my mom's amazing, because she had no training or equipping for what that looks like, and so when we were in school, all day she was totally devoted to baking and cooking and learning how to housekeep, like crafting atmospheres that were very hospitable and excelled at that.

Speaker 3: 28:42

Still does, I mean she she can come in and run any hospitality ministry, like with her eyes closed, you know. And so I learned so much practically as well as you know just a heart that's drawn towards that um through growing up in that house and that that has never left and that's always flavored our family, especially with housing people. We've just well, me in particular, you know brad's grown in that area. That wasn't somewhere he necessarily felt drawn to, but he's very much on board with it and complicit in it and enjoys it a lot more now. But just any opportunity that we've had where if it's someone's moving here and they need a place to stay for a few months, or there's a kid in the youth and the cops got called and they need somewhere to stay for a few days because of a domestic situation, or a refugee family who we just got done housing that needed somewhere to stay and help put them in an apartment and we just moved them out last week Like there has just been consistent access opportunities and a yes to that um that we have just felt as part of our assignment and that's coming into a lot more like official, committed focus where we asked ourselves how do we want to spend the second half of our lives, like we're, you know, 46 years old, you know, with the second, with the second half of our lives, like how do we want to do life?

Speaker 3: 30:05

And we want to continue to do it um more, more explicitly, by preparing to have our house be set up in such a way to, to, to be able to have to entertain the stranger, to be a place of restoration, rehabilitation, helping people find home, settling, you know, and the thing that's really cool about it is they come in and we don't know them and they leave in their family, like there was a couple different people who have lived with us before and they tell me I'm their second mom and they want to come over all the time.

Speaker 3: 30:44

You know, and it's like this is amazing.

Speaker 3: 30:46

You know like you get to build like these opportunities for mentorship, discipleship, evangelism, and then also practical stuff like apprenticeship, equipping. You know I need to help me find a car, or just, you know, just like all of the things. You know, um, and so very much so, um, my upbringing, um, and what I was exposed to, that was very attractive to me and my eyes always on that, and so I'm really thankful that where it was very limited, you know, with the kids and the homeschooling and finances, and I mean we just didn't have, we couldn't stretch out that far, right, you know, in the first 20 years of our marriage. But you know, in this, in this next season, it's like, well, gosh, you know, I actually don't have anything holding me back from that. I can actually really go after that. We have the resources, we have the time and we still have the heart.

Speaker 3: 31:37

You know like this is how I want to live, I don't. You know like this is how I want to live, I don't, which is totally fine if you want to have a house on the beach and just hang out at the beach. You know, in your retirement years. But it's like you know, yeah, that'd be great to do a couple of times a year, but, like I, just this is where I want to be. This is where I feel, you know, the most joy, where I feel the most alive and where I feel like I'm walking out my assignment um the most fully. And there's not a lot of people that I see that feel called to that, and I want to be in a place where it's like where, where is this truly needful? You know, in my community or in this culture, you know, and it's like that's, that's something not a lot of people get to say yes to. And because I can, I, you know, really want to, and so, but yeah, that very much is tied into my upbringing, for sure.

Speaker 1: 32:26

Wow.

Speaker 2: 32:27

Do you feel like you have a gifting of hospitality?

Speaker 3: 32:32

I, I do, and I've been told that I do. Um, it's not something I have to think about, you know, it's just, it's just very much um, a subconscious thing. That just happens, you know, because, again, I was raised in that and had a lot of practice doing it like large scale, small scale in a home and bigger settings, um, um, but yeah, I, I love, I love bringing in people that I don't know and then leaving in there and they're my family and they know they can call me anytime. You know, not because I'm their savior, but you know, like people, they people need connection.

Speaker 2: 33:10

That's something I've seen, so I know some people that I really think are gifted in it and that's kind of the thing that I see on their life is like people that everybody feels at home around them, like wherever they are, they create this home that like makes other people feel at home. Right, and anybody can do that, even if you're not gifted in hospitality. If you're being hospitable, you're acting, you know you're gifted, in a sense, right.

Speaker 2: 33:41

You get to do it. But the people who have a calling and a lifelong gifting, calling people that go meet them, come away, feel like, oh, they're my family now. Like we're connected for life.

Speaker 3: 33:54

Having a house built, every room has a bathroom in it, and we're moving in the first of the year and we're going through certification for foster and adoption and you know we're getting to like actually really step into our lane more specifically, and it's just so great. You know it's fine if we're kind of toggling between all the things, but, you know, becoming empty nesters and dialing back on things that we had to do for a certain season, those assignments are over, or they've dialed back quite a bit, and so there's more margin and there's resources to be able to go after this, you know.

Speaker 2: 34:29

So you're having a house built with a bathroom in every bedroom.

Speaker 3: 34:33

Yeah, so, um, the way that our current home has been set up logistically, and through lots of practice, we've found out like what needs to be different. So we sat down with the builder and drafted up plans, and then too, with the fostering part, there's a lot of legal, you know, certification requirements with all of that, yeah, with the rooms and the space and all that Right.

Speaker 3: 34:53

So we're building the house with all of those types of constraints in mind to be able to accommodate a lot more varied scenarios and then just being being positioned to be able to say yes, to be able to say okay, yeah, we can take this or we can do that. You know we you can't do everything all the time, but we're wanting to position ourselves that, when we know those right needs have arisen, we're ready, we're ready to go and everything's set in place.

Speaker 2: 35:24

That's awesome. That's really cool.

Speaker 3: 35:26

It's super cool. Had a lot of um, people reach out, prophetic words, um, a couple of dreams that started in January, and just to be here where it's like we've already checked off so many boxes and it's all just kind of fallen into place, it's like, wow, it feels like it came out of nowhere, but we've been living our whole lives for another one of these chapters. So, yeah, it's been really cool.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Are you close to being an empty nester?

Speaker 3: 36:00

Our youngest is 17,. 17, 1ust, nice. Yeah. So joel is in africa right now. He'll be 20 in december. He's got one more year of college and he he is looking to live with someone when he comes back from af, so has the ability to do that. But we can be empty nesters, if we want to in a year.

Speaker 1: 36:32

I want to ask what kind of advice would you give for couples who one person feels called to hospitality and the other doesn't?

Speaker 3: 36:46

You can only run as fast as the slowest person, or you'll lose them. That is a really good question and I think that you can apply that to pretty much everything, like if you're not on the same page. It really is a negotiation of what can you do to stretch yourself a little bit to, to do a little bit more to reach towards this, and how can the other person gate themselves and respect?

Speaker 3: 37:13

the timing and the season of the Lord, especially in marriage, because God doesn't put you in a marriage with each of you being made the way that you're made and make it super complicated and difficult for everybody to find their sweet spot and do this in a unified manner. You know, and so I think the confusion can come in where we misunderstand unity and conformity. It's like you're not there trying to get each other to conform to your own. You know tastes, likings and images. You're there to celebrate all of the spectrum of things that make us so different and enjoy this journey of figuring out how this, each of these puzzle pieces, are actually creating a picture and so really surrendering to that and to the time that it takes to grow and to learn about how those should be applied the frequency, the pace, like, for example, because of everything the Lord started highlighting with me at the beginning of this year and all that it was going to take for Brad to come alongside that vision and that goal that was mine.

Speaker 3: 38:26

A decision had to be made. He was going to start another business this year and myself and our oldest son said, dad, you should not do this. And he was like, okay, and it took him a while, but he was like you know, you're right, you know, okay, and it took him a while, but he was like you know, you're right, you know, and we have enough history in the way we do things as family that he trusts that we're seeing something, you know. And instead of beating his head against the wall, he's like I can wait a year, you know, like maybe I'm supposed to wait two years, but if everybody's, if we are all committed that we're going to do this, something has to give and we don't have to be fearful that.

Speaker 3: 39:04

You know, just that FOMO mentality that if I don't do this now, I'm going to miss out or I'm going to waste the best years of my life. It's like, no, the gifts and callings of God make room for you. Your gifts make room for you, you know. And so don't, don't try to force it, just lean into it. And you know whether I was. I mean, there were times that, like I was working at Brad's business, sitting behind a desk during crisis moments. That was the last place I wanted to be, but it was the most important place that I needed to be, because it's building something bigger than me.

Speaker 3: 39:34

We have God's big enough for us to support one another and have this shared support system you know one another and have this shared support system, you know, and so, um, yeah, I think it is a negotiation Like there's. You know you're going to have conflict, you're going to have to have conversations, but it is a negotiation, ryan, to to talk about. These are all the things that we're both wanting. How, how, how can all of this fit together? For right now, and just being faithful to treasure those things, ponder them in your heart, sow to them where you can, but God is the one who gives the increase. Just be obedient with what you can sustain right now and you won't be disappointed. You'll actually be surprised, because what you think this is all leading to is usually far different.

Speaker 3: 40:24

I mean, we all know that right. We've all lived long enough to know things. Don't look at all the way I thought they would. They're actually better.

Speaker 2: 40:32

Yeah, that's very true. Something that's coming to mind as you're talking. I love this. It's like you have giftings and callings in you. Brad's got his giftings and callings in you, brad's got his giftings and callings and his and desires as well. Like is there an intentionality to like marry those up together? Do you try to fit it together like a puzzle? Do you just kind of go after things and serve one another and and look back and say, oh, this tapestry got created and wove together is so great? Because I think there's a tension sometimes in my marriage of like okay, andrea has these desires and callings, I've got these desires and callings. Sometimes they don't fit together perfectly.

Speaker 2: 41:12

You know what I mean, but it seems from the outside. Looking in, it seems like you guys get that unity.

Speaker 1: 41:18

Really well, just to second that, I feel the same way, like I wrestle a lot with am I supposed to give Leslie space and time to do those things and then she gave me space and time to do the things I feel like God's calling me to, or to like what you said? How? How do they marry together? Or are they supposed to marry together like I?

Speaker 2: 41:44

think if I flip to the back of the book, I feel like they're supposed to marry together, like that's where I'm, because we're one flesh but but yet two individuals.

Speaker 3: 41:56

But I just I see you guys getting that well, and I think in everything that you're doing, they are marrying together, but it's not always visible. And, and what I mean by that is there was a season, gosh, it was like seven years, that brad did not have a capacity for me to be a part of worship ministry in a church because of the practices and showing up early with three small kids. He did not feel confident or competent taking care of three three kids, and one of them being a baby by himself, and that was, of course, disappointing, because I'm at home, I don't have any other outlets, you know, other than serving in kids ministry, which wasn't an outlet, it wasn't an obligation, um, you know, but than serving in kids ministry, which wasn't an outlet, it wasn't an obligation, um, you know. But like in that season, it was like, gosh, this is really disappointing, but like the writing is on the wall and and he was working like 60 hours a week trying to like, make a way, you know, for us financially and and so I just, and so I just me saying okay, I won't, and not having that outlet for a very long period of time. That was marrying the two together, like sometimes not getting to do what you want to do is marrying the two together, because it was enabling him to grow and do the things that were really important, so that I could pick that baton back up and there would be space for me to do that.

Speaker 3: 43:26

And there's been times, like I said, like this year, like he's act, there's a tangible thing he's not going to do, you know. But then there's been other times where they've merged, like like in him wanting to start businesses and him endeavoring to have a family culture of mentorship, discipleship and evangelism in those businesses. It's given me opportunities, like where he's like, hey, can you do, like food and bring it in. You know, like, ok, I have capacity to do that, but like I'm not like sitting there waiting because he's going to call me every single day. I've got other things going on too. So there's, there is wherever we can find places where we can like share what we bring to the table and support each other, you know, and so into what each other has.

Speaker 3: 44:11

Like him, he poured money into me recording songs. Like that came from him. Like he worked so that those finances were there so I could pay for stuff for that and he had nothing to no involvement in it. You know, it's like a lot of little things, you know. But marrying those things together and choosing those puzzle pieces like it may not look like it in the moment, visibly, because somebody is not getting what they want. It's getting set aside, but it's just temporary, you know, like that piece has to go in first before this piece can go in, kind of a thing, this you're unlocking something that I think is so important, like the whole.

Speaker 2: 44:53

But what you said, when you said like two minutes ago, and you said, like not doing something is marrying it together, like the, the cause, I just think that's a counter. It's counter cultural to me, but it's so true Like you need to sacrifice at times so that you're the other person can do what they're called to do because you are one. But I just love the way you phrased it. That's, I think a lot of people need to hear. I think I need to hear that that's really cool.

Speaker 3: 45:25

That's a great revelation and it you know, and it it doesn't necessarily ever, ever get you know easier. I mean, brad came to me like a month ago and he said because I was like man, I kind of feel like you're not really supporting me to the degree that I was hoping you would. I feel like I have just surrendered every time that your visions and his visions have been like a lot bigger and have required a lot more time and investment and finances, and rightly so. But I'm like I feel like I have just been very devoted to always getting behind you when you have another big idea and weathering that really well. And this is like one time that it's a big ask and it's like a big deal and I'm not feeling like I know you will be there but I don't. I don't. I'm. I'm feeling something here and so I had to take ownership for that. I don't. I don't I'm. I'm feeling something here and so I had to take ownership for that. I'm like I can't blame shift. I've got to do this, whether or not you're with me, if this is something God's told me to do, if I've got to do 80% of the work and I was expecting you to bring in 40%, not 20, I still have to own that I've got to be obedient, but I'm kind of disappointed because I don't feel like you're bringing that.

Speaker 3: 46:51

And so the Lord showed him. He was like you know what I think it is. I have never had to find myself in this position in our marriage where I have had to be the one to take a back seat and put it all in for something really big and costly. That was your idea. And he was like I'm totally doing this, I'm good and I'm letting this go and this is important for me, you know.

Speaker 3: 47:05

And so and it doesn't really matter that like largely, that was more of something I had to do was lay down, lay down, lay down. Well, I don't really feel like I did, because all of the other little wins that happened along the way that I really cared about, like I really have felt like I didn't. It didn't feel that way, but to him it feels that way. He was like oh, my goodness, you know, you've always deferred to me and I'm like well, I don't feel like that's the case, but I do feel like that in this moment, like where are you? Like you know, I need your help. You got to sign the deed to this house Like I can't. You have to show up and be available.

Speaker 3: 47:39

You know it's just comical, but yeah, this never changes, it never goes away in marriage. You know, like you get more aware that it is always a part of the process, you know, but yeah, it is, it really truly is. Chris, just you know and I know I said this earlier you know, when we get this fear of missingris, just you know, and I know, I said this earlier, you know this when we get this fear of missing out, you know, like that is your first sign you just need to stop right where you are. You know, like you are never gonna miss out on god's best for you, um, unless you decide to force something that it's just not right.

Speaker 3: 48:21

And really, just being honest, asking that question, you know, like, all right, what needs to happen next, and I'm not going to make a selfish decision, I'm truly going to look at this and say what needs to happen next. It needs to be you. Let's get behind you. You know, or it needs to be you get behind you. You know you. You, you know, or it needs to be you get behind you. You know you, you gotta be. I mean, that's just the heart of obedience is being willing to acknowledge like this is really what needs to happen next and I don't have to be afraid that I'm going to miss out, um, because I'm acknowledging that you need to go first, you know, or you need to go next.

Speaker 1: 48:58

Oh, I redefines humility and sacrifice for me.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Yeah, I'm a big FOMO guy. Well, I'm not a huge FOMO guy, but we all succumb to FOMO at times. You said something I can't shake it. The gifts of God make space for you. I cannot get that out of my head. Can you expound on that?

Speaker 3: 49:24

Yeah, I think by that I mean kind of similarly to where I thought that the desires, the needs and the interests that I had could only be fulfilled by working a full-time job and having a career, everything I ever wanted fulfilled and would have hoped to have gotten out of a career. I found that by kind of being dealt this forced hand of homeschooling based off of our values and convictions, you know, with what we wanted that to look like, and so that made room for my gifts to grow, room for my gifts to grow, and it made room for those gifts to be used, and so all of the things I ever dreamed about writing songs, recording songs or doing art or you guys don't know this, but I like to dabble in carpentry and, of course, the gardening and just, you know, like a lot of those types of things you know, or even growing things like coming in and being, you know, getting to teach classes and grow people to be able to have been in that environment where I was teaching music, which I love, and developing hearts of worship leaders and getting to see these kids come in in sixth grade barely able to like keep time, and then their senior year, they're actually leading worship every Thursday morning for 600 people and doing it better than I could do it. It was like man, like I feel, like I could. Just, you know I could die now and I just feel, you know, just seeing something grow and things take flight. You know, like that's what I mean by that of the gifts and callings of God. If they truly are a gift and a calling of the Lord, then there's always going to be room for that, room for that to be stewarded on an uncommon path, room for that to grow in an unconventional path. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 51:24

We just get so hard fixed on something very, you know, visual or tangible. You know, like no eye has seen, you know no mind has conceived you know what god has in store for those who love him. You know, like there's just so much there and this is something else that I was kind of thinking about. It's kind of similar. It's just, um, you know that scripture that talks about you know being, you know being blessed to have your quiver full, like talking about like arrows, and I'm going to botch that scripture, but you know the one I'm talking about. You know that what, whatever that quiver is, that God's given you, whatever arrows that he's put in your quiver, you get the opportunity to aim and launch that and the joy of seeing it actually hit the target. And so if you don't know what your family is, what your quiver is, your kids- your husband, your wife, your callings, like no, no, what's in your quiver?

Speaker 3: 52:29

And when you pull that thing out and you launch it, you need to really, really focus on what you're aiming for, because you're going to be really disappointed if you launch it too soon, if you, if you aim at the wrong target, like it's worth that time, those conversations, those negotiations, watching and waiting you know not being in a hurry so that you can aim well and launch well and hit that target, you know, and just be like I'm, you know what I mean. Or you know otherwise, and if you do that too soon and then it's just like crap. You know otherwise, and if you do that too soon, and then it's just like crap. That did not go where I wanted it to go, but we're in such a hurry, we're in such a hurry to. You know I gotta shoot my arrows. You know I got all these arrows here. I gotta shoot them all, you know.

Speaker 3: 53:17

And so I was meditating on I don't know why that that was coming up for me, so I don't know if that is a word for someone that's listening but just that whole thing of just your gifts and your callings make room for you. God has given us all a quiver full of children, assignments, callings, but be really intentional about when you pull those out and how you aim and what you're aiming for, because you want them to count, you know and you want to hit the intended target. And when we get in this sense of hastiness or rushing, or we just don't like being uncomfortable or we feel like we've just been doing this forever, you know like when is it going to be over? You know you feel like you've served your time, so to speak, and it should look different by now.

Speaker 3: 54:06

It's like you know that it's at the heart of that is in gratitude and when you're not focused and when you're not focused on gratitude and thankfulness, and that whatever you know your cup is that you're being asked to drink and drinking it with gratitude. You know, if you forego all of that, you're going to pull that thing out and launch it too soon, aim for the wrong thing and it's going to screw everything up.

Speaker 2: 54:34

How do you get through the boring season?

Speaker 1: 54:39

That's a great question.

Speaker 3: 54:43

Gratitude. I mean honestly, like I think we think that if it doesn't feel good, if it doesn't feel good and if it feels like it's taking, like you know again, like you know, when you get into those places where you're starting to feel tired and you're starting to feel weary, it's like, well, of course, this is how you feel when you're sewing, this is how you feel, you know, when you're working through building something, like you're just going to be tired and you're going to be bored and it's going to feel like nothing's happening. You know, and but the enemy knows that that those hidden, unknown, anonymous places, that's actually where every strength that you need to be cultivated to sustain what you're going to step into, if he can get you to avoid the cultivation of all of the strengths and all of the graces and all of the gifts, that only or you do get into that space, because the whole purpose of that is to develop more internal pressure than external pressure. So when you do get that moment, you know you don't combust and you actually you have what it takes to do to do that. Well, you know, like and so when, anytime, I would find, like man, man, it just feels like it's been forever. It feels like whatever.

Speaker 3: 56:30

I just had to remind myself like I'm not ready yet. Obviously I'm not ready yet. I have to continue proving my allegiance to God, because this is testing my allegiance to Him. Is he my exceedingly great reward? My allegiance to him Am I? Is he my exceedingly great reward? Or is my fantasy about my calling or my gifting or my career or my affability or my notoriety Like what? What is it that I really am? You know, pledging myself to, and I think when you go back to that you'll stay in the wilderness, however heck the long that you have to.

Speaker 3: 57:05

You know, and it doesn't, and you can't microwave all of the things. You know a strong identity, a right portrait of God. You know understanding who you are, who he is like, just all the things. You know a disciplined imagination. You're not. You know a disciplined imagination. You're not going to microwave overnight. A disciplined imagination that takes years, years of practice. You know preparation and practice, preparation and practice. It takes so much longer than we think and anything of value doesn't happen overnight. It's a long, steady accumulation of things. You are just filling that reservoir, filling that reservoir, stockpiling that reservoir, and then you have something to draw from. So did that answer your question.

Speaker 2: 58:04

That's some of the best content I've ever heard on that topic. That's incredible. That's yeah, that's very encouraging to me. You know I'm I'm thinking while you're talking, like, uh, I, I run for fitness a lot, and so that I I think in metaphors and analogies a lot too. And but it's true, in running like the, the, your strength for running is built up by just the long, boring, medium-paced miles and there's simply no replacement for that. Do you want to run a half marathon or marathon? You just have to go run a bunch of miles at a very medium pace.

Speaker 2: 58:47

It's very boring. But, your body is building up strength and you're getting used to the impact, and it's like I see the parallel in what you're talking about too the spirituality.

Speaker 2: 59:00

It's just like there is no replacement for it. So many of the key biblical figures they had their season in the desert or shepherding sheep as preparation for being a king, like being a carpenter in preparation for, you know, three years of the most impactful ministry the world's ever known. And just those preparatory seasons that are, quote boring or not flashy, they're not Instagram worthy. I mean, I feel like you're helping me give value to those.

Speaker 3: 59:41

Right.

Speaker 3: 59:41

Which is really important, because you can't if you miss, if you miss that, you could miss all of it well, yeah, and to your point about you know jesus, like he didn't even model the type of expectations that we're putting on ourselves in today's culture, you know, like he only had three years where he was visible out of his 33 years of life and it was enough strength, the cultivated, devotion cultivated, to be able to just spend time with 12 guys.

Speaker 3: 1:00:15

You know, and change the world. You know, and so I actually did like a parallel study on on that of like there's actually like a principle in the way that, like our lifespans, look, you know, looking at Moses, looking at Jesus, looking at the people of Israel, you know, and seeing, like, okay, like you have an encounter with the Lord, you have a sense of your calling and then immediately you're thrust into this hidden place where your allegiance is tested before you can step into that promised land. Like everybody walked that road. Jesus, he the dove, descended this is my son whom will please. He was acknowledged as the savior and then he immediately went to the wilderness to be tested. You know, it's like we can't get around, like what you can see outlined in scripture, like this is how this goes, you know, and it's just a lie of the enemy that you can see outlined in scripture like this is how this goes, you know, and it's just a lie of the enemy that you can avoid that. But yeah, that's really good.

Speaker 1: 1:01:17

Elizabeth Jackson. Thank you for being on today. My pleasure. Thank you for being on today.

Speaker 3: 1:01:27

My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me to be a part.

Speaker 2: 1:01:32

Thanks for coming. This was awesome. Thank you Bye. Thank you.