Speaker 1: 0:05

do we pray into this thing? Is this a jesus podcast? This?

Speaker 2: 0:09

is where we're at here. What?

Speaker 1: 0:10

am I, am I sharing the gospel?

Speaker 3: 0:12

or are we encouraging believers? What are we doing here? Confusing was that. I mean, I didn't know. I see a bunch of empty cans and I'm thinking, being a baptist, I'm like this, can't?

Speaker 1: 0:20

they can't know, jesus, if they're having beer.

Speaker 2: 0:22

Those are all just Ryans.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Every single one of them.

Speaker 3: 0:30

This is the Uncommon Path where we take a deep dive into people's journey or path with the Lord. In a nutshell, we're just wanting you to share kind of where your journey with the lord started, kind of the past and present, what he's doing currently, and then, um, what you feel like he's highlighting for the horizon. Um, give us a, give us a spiel um of who you are, what you're about, where you're from. All the good intro stuff.

Speaker 3: 1:06

Go ahead go ahead, now go yeah, this isn't as professional as some of the other things you've probably been a part of no, that's great.

Speaker 1: 1:16

Uh, so trog trogdon, um, actually matthew aaron trog, if you want to know the full name there, the biblical name that was given to me, let's see, I was born and raised in a small town called Bolivar, missouri. My grandfather was a pastor. On my mom's side, my dad taught at a Baptist school, southwest Baptist University. So I grew up in a Christian home. I think I was five when I was at Southern Hills Baptist Church and in the Baptist world they do communion about once a quarter, you know but they were doing communion that Sunday and they were passing the plate and I don't know why, but I just started crying, five years old, and my dad noticed obviously that I was not disturbed in a bad way but my heart was obviously getting torn open, and took me in the back prayer room and shared the gospel with me and I don't remember all the words I said, I don't remember those details, but I remember him saying that the angels were rejoicing in heaven that day.

Speaker 1: 2:22

And so I grew up in the church. I mean small town, country boy, I think. We had two stoplights, maybe three, um, dirt road until middle school. I say small town Some guys are grew up in smaller towns, but we had like six or 7,000 people Um Dallas Willard's, actually from Buffalo, missouri. I was about 10 or 15 minutes away.

Speaker 3: 2:45

No way.

Speaker 1: 2:47

But all these little towns around, just country life. And I like to say this because I think it's important. I'm not saying preachers preach this, but I can tell you what I took from church growing up was I had my ticket to heaven, that I knew Jesus and, because of Christ's death and burial and resurrection, that and my faith in him, that I was going to spend eternity with Christ and in heaven. But I didn't know the practical applications of what that meant. So what I heard was okay, you've got this ticket, Now just live your life however you want, get whatever degree you want, do whatever you want. I whatever degree you want, Do whatever you want. I knew I shouldn't sin. I shouldn't cuss, drink or smoke. Definitely shouldn't drink because I was Baptist, right, but it was honestly I would say my faith was a lot about what I shouldn't do versus who I am in Christ, and I think it's Titus where he says that he died and rose again to prepare people zealous for good works, and that was just a different piece of the puzzle that I didn't know.

Speaker 1: 3:53

So I grew up playing sports. My dad was an athlete, got drafted by the Tigers, blew out his elbow, so he never played professionally. We homesteaded in that area of Missouri, so everybody knew the Trogdon name and I had a good time. I mean I literally I was a good kid, you know. I didn't do all the bad things, but I was definitely on that line. I was like where's the line? And I had as much fun as I possibly could.

Speaker 1: 4:18

I did until I thought the line was crossed, but that was my upbringing. I did until I thought the line was crossed, and but that was my upbringing and it was a great. I mean I miss it. It was country, it was, we had some horses and all that stuff. But it wasn't until I actually I came to Campbell University here in North Carolina and met a bunch of other guys that had the same kind of story. They were Christians, they were good guys. They didn't do all the partying stuff. They had found their identities in, you know, sports or athletics or women or whatever, Uh, so we just had a bunch of fun in college. But it wasn't until I moved to Texas that I say I fell in love with, fell in love with Jesus all over again. I can share as much about that as I want to know.

Speaker 3: 4:58

What was that? Was that kind of a process, or was that an instant moment?

Speaker 1: 5:09

kind of a process, or was that an instant moment? I would definitely say it was a process. Um, I, I loved my college experience was part of it. I just wanted to get away from my small town because I wanted to know who I really was. Who am I apart from other people knowing me, or at least knowing my family or whatever? And so again, college, it was interesting when I think about it. I would go to the parties because I felt like I was better than the rest of the people. It kind of built my ego a little bit because I wasn't doing all that stuff. But when I went to church I would feel bad and I would ask for forgiveness right.

Speaker 1: 5:39

So I say I felt like I was the best of the worst and the worst of the best. And so whenever you ride the fence, you just get chafed. It's just a bad idea, right and so.

Speaker 1: 5:48

I just rode the fence on life and on my faith and what it meant to be a Christian. But I mean, I joke about it, but it's true. I had Carmen Electra poster on one wall and Tupac on the other. Only God can judge me. And I thought I was good, like I had no remorse about it, I had no right and um, somewhere around high school I was 14 or 15 and my looks kind of caught up with my personality. This is before I looked like a duck dynasty guy.

Speaker 1: 6:17

So I actually used to be kind of good looking. Uh, not that they're not good looking, if they're listening, uh, those are good looking men. But uh, so Phil, just know that. And Willie, you're stuck, um, but uh, to that degree, uh, you know, I just found my identity in sports and women and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 6:37

And so when I graduated, I got my undergrad and my MBA and I thought, well, I'm going to come to Texas and make a ton of money because that was another idol of mine. So insert money into the world and came down to Dallas, brought four or five of my best friends from Campbell and then that summer I just man, I started reading and reading the scriptures, reading Christian books, reading self-help books is kind of how it started. But there was more. A lot of self-help books have a much deeper story. They don't come to the right conclusion all the time, but they know there's more to life than money. And so that summer, after I graduated, all I can tell you is that I just started to fall in love with Jesus all over again and I started to realize, yes, I'm saved, yes, I know the Lord, but you know, ephesians 2.10 says that he prepared good works in advance for us to do before we were born, and it's our job to walk in those ways, and so I just started to learn those things. I got plugged into a church.

Speaker 3: 7:41

Was the draw more of an emptiness you felt without him, or was the draw more of a hunger for something more?

Speaker 1: 7:49

I think it was a hunger for more, because I had that morality thing down enough that I didn't know what I was missing. That's just what I thought Christianity was. It's like, well, again, I'm going to heaven, I can have as much fun as I want, but not too much fun. Does that make sense? And so I think I was just hungering for more of going gosh, there's got to be more than this.

Speaker 1: 8:12

And it's really interesting because I think in our walks with Christ we preach so much and it's true that it's by faith alone right, that it's not by works. There's nothing we can do to earn salvation. But we stop there and we don't talk about after salvation. If God gives us a free gift, a Ferrari, let's say he wants us to drive it, he wants us to use it, he doesn't want us to stick it in the garage and never do anything but read the manual. And so I think a lot of times we're so scared of talking about doing good things and being zealous for good works that people think, oh well, don't earn salvation. I'm like, no, no, no, we're not earning salvation. It's because of salvation, it's because of what he did for me that I want he died for me while I lived for him, right, and so that's what I started to understand.

Speaker 1: 8:58

And I got plugged into a good church, jarrett Stevens, a great pastor. There's a guy named Matt Chandler that a lot of people know now. Um, he was doing a Monday night Metro. Nobody had ever heard of Matt Chandler. This time was like 2002. And, um, man, I would go to hear him talk on Monday nights at this big church, rather, but uh, and I would just cry and I was like man, I can't come back here.

Speaker 1: 9:21

I keep crying, but it was the Lord really drawing me in and um, so that was that's kind of how that worked, but I just I. Then I started meeting other men of God. That were guys that I wanted to hang out with, that were cool, that were like wait a minute, you don't have to be a dorky kind of you know um to yourself person to be a Christian. You can have the joy of the Lord and be magnanimous and follow the Lord. And that's what I started seeing is all these men that I was like man, I want what they have. And then fast forward another year and Jarrett introduced me to a guy that changed my life, mike Fetchner. He started discipling me. I didn't know what discipleship was and he essentially told me. He said, if you want to walk with Jesus, I can show you how, and he was probably 45 at the time. He was a pastor.

Speaker 3: 10:10

How did that relationship start?

Speaker 1: 10:12

Jarrett Stevens was the pastor over singles at our church, and Mike was this guy that he did a 40-day fast every year. He talked with God. I mean when he prayed it wasn't just talking to God, he listened to God. He was not only a pastor, but he had given away millions of dollars when he was in the business world and he would say things like you risk nothing to trust Christ with everything. And so he just lived a life of like he had all the world offered and he gave it away to serve the Lord. He started a nonprofit in the inner city of Dallas, which is how I got connected through Bonton.

Speaker 3: 10:53

Farms eventually Um, but Jared introduced me to him because I guess he saw my hunger and thirst for more things of Christ and he reached. He reached out to you and saw the hunger and said let me pour into you. Correct, correct.

Speaker 1: 11:01

Cool and um, and he did that. He, he always took about four or five guys every year and just discipled them. In fact, if you track like a bunch of the guys that Mike had mentored, he passed now. Um, but if you track a bunch of the guys he had discipled man, they're all pastors and running ministries and doing all sorts of incredible things.

Speaker 1: 11:19

Um, but I saw a man that I wanted what he had in his walk with the Lord and when I heard his stories it wasn't just a story, it wasn't just like I was reading the Old Testament. I was watching Christ work in a man's life through his family, through his ministry and in all different ways, and so that's when discipleship. So you asked me what I do now. Essentially, I run a ministry called Kingdom Focus Coaching and my passion is to equip disciples, to make disciples, and then on top of that we do some evangelism stuff and then we serve the suffering and through all that we get to plant churches and start nonprofits and all that. But that's how I got connected into all of that, a man discipled me.

Speaker 1: 12:04

He just said hey, if you want to walk with Jesus, I'll show you how. I said I'm in Now. I invest my entire life doing that because I don't want people growing up just with a ticket to heaven.

Speaker 1: 12:15

I want them, knowing that eternity is now, that we get to walk with Christ, that he's better than anything we could ever desire on this earth, that he's better than anything we could ever desire on this earth, and that walking with him intimately and fellowship with him and the power of the Spirit through the Word of God and community with other men of God, that's how we live a life worth living.

Speaker 3: 12:38

There's a question I've been wanting to ask you because I really do think you're an incredible uh discipler, because I've heard countless stories of you discipling people, whether it's over zoom or in person, and what you do right Monton farms is great example, and kingdom focus coaching. But uh, what is your thought on? Uh, what is your thought on? Cause? I'm still I'm still trying to reconcile it personally. And we have people in our community too, who you get some people who are like hey, if you're hungry, reach out to me, I'm ready to pour out, but I'm busy with life and I don't have time to search everybody to see who's hungry and who's not. And then you have people on the other side where it's like I'm seeking out and whether you're hungry or not, I'm going to, I'm going to seek you out and I'm going to pour into you until you walk away. What is? What is your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 13:43

And let me get clarity, as george peterson would say precisely are you talking about a discipler making disciples or people wanting to be disciples?

Speaker 3: 13:55

yeah, so I guess like discipleship relationships. I guess, for clarity, do you think it's both and someone reaching out Like who should be initiating discipleship relationships? I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 1: 14:11

Ephesians 4,. The goal of the church is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. So to the degree that we're not doing that, from a church standpoint, from a pastoral standpoint, from a leadership standpoint, it's our job to cast the bait for people to say, hey, I want more. So that's one side. On the other side, it's up to us individually to go hey, man, I had this experience with Christ, I'm reading the scriptures, I want more. So I would say it's both hands, but I would have to say it starts with the church, because that's what Christ gave to the saints is to advance the kingdom of God.

Speaker 1: 14:45

So as leaders, we need to be scattering the seed everywhere so that we can find those that are thirsty and hungry. So that would be one thing. The other thing too and again I'm a country boy, I told you guys this so the whole phrase that says you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, that's true. But I say you can salt the oats and run them on a hot day. And so I think it's up to us as leaders, to make help to make them thirsty and help to live a life worthy of the calling and being an example, to where we're magnetic, to where they go. Hey, I want to be like him because he's like Christ. So when Paul says, follow to where they go, hey, I want to be like him because he's like Christ.

Speaker 1: 15:24

So when Paul says, follow me as I follow Christ, if we follow Christ in that way, if we're watching God answer prayer, if we're in the scriptures and know the word of God, if we make decisions based on faith, not our finances, then people are going to say I want what he has because we'll have what they don't, and so I think it's a both and on both fronts. But I would say it starts from leadership, and all leadership is. John Maxwell says this is influence. So we're all leaders, whether you have five kids or six kids or however many kids we have, or whether it's just in the family or in our community or at our church or whatever it is, we're all leaders to some degree because we influence. Somebody Did that answer your question.

Speaker 3: 16:03

Yeah, I love that. I love that answer. It's really good.

Speaker 2: 16:06

I'm glad you asked that question because that's come up before in this podcast and it's come up in my life, actually very recently Like should you reach out to somebody that you see needs discipleship?

Speaker 3: 16:19

Yes.

Speaker 2: 16:20

Yeah, it's a yes, right. But then I've also had people like where you're discipling them and they're not in it, like I know you need this, but you're, your heart's not there, and I've. I've stumbled around with that and, uh, there was one time where I was, like you know, in a discipleship session and it's like hey, yeah, man like did you Like? Did you do what we? He's struggling, of course, cause it a lot, a lot of times it's it starts with like how do I get out of my rut, or whatever.

Speaker 3: 16:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:54

And it's like well, did you do what we talked about last week? No, Okay. Well, what are we doing here?

Speaker 1: 17:01

Right, you know what I'm saying, right.

Speaker 2: 17:03

Like, if you like, right, as I would, I'm asking this question it's not even a question, but expressing just some comments. But I'd love to ask you as somebody who disciples, disciple makers yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:11

Like yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:12

Like what do you do when they're not in it?

Speaker 3: 17:15

That's a great question yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:17

A couple things. Go back to the salty oats and run them. On a hot day I give them more as much as I can, but at some point the train's not going to stop. Meaning this is what my mentor would say I'm going to follow Christ and I'll walk with you as long as you want to, but if you get off the train, I'm going to follow Christ and I'll walk with you as long as you want to, but if you get off the train I'm going to keep going. Does that make sense? And so there's a couple of things. I think the best discipleship has a bit of informal and formal. So formal would be hey, we're doing a book study, which there's a whole thing about that I don't love book studies.

Speaker 2: 17:55

But just go with me for the analogy here. I love it. Okay, ryan, about that. I don't love book studies, but just go with me for the analogy here okay, ryan does well.

Speaker 1: 18:00

So let's say we're doing a book study and I don't.

Speaker 3: 18:04

Just for clarification for all the listeners out there. I'm not big on book studies I.

Speaker 1: 18:09

I've started saying I don't uh reading in general yeah, I've started saying I don't want to go to another Bible study. I just want to do Bible practices because I want to do what Christ has called us to do. No, I think that a couple things here formal and informal discipleship. Formal would be a book study. It would be hey, we're going to read this chapter. Hey, please do this homework. I want to give them something to do each week and applying the scriptures. So part of what I teach in discipleship. When we talk about Bible memory, for example, navigators, amazing ministry they have you memorize a verse and they have 52 free. You know one a week for the whole year. Well, I don't even like to give people a Bible verse for them to memorize me. Give it to them. I like them to decide what verse to memorize. Right, because people support what they help to create and so if they choose.

Speaker 3: 18:59

Stop Say that again slower. Okay, that was so good and it literally just.

Speaker 1: 19:07

People support what they help to create. So if I gave you memory verses each week to memorize, you may do it and you may come back to me and regurgitate it, but you might not have meditated on it.

Speaker 2: 19:19

Here's how I talk about meditation on the scriptures.

Speaker 1: 19:22

It's like worry in reverse. We've all worried about things, so if we've ever worried about something, that's meditation, just in the wrong way. So that's what it means. To take the word of God in the Hebrew would be mutter. It's like when you're actually think about it, when you're mad at somebody and you just keep muttering, you're like, oh, I can't wait to get him back, you know. And well, that's the negative side. But to murmur, to mutter, to think about it, to chew on it, that's meditation. So, but so think about this.

Speaker 1: 19:48

The question I first asked people was hey, what verse have week and how did you apply it to your life? John 15,. He says abide in me and I and you and you'll bear much fruit. Abide in me and my words in you, abide in me and my words in you, and obey. And that's what it means to love. Jesus is to obey. So go back to your question.

Speaker 1: 20:06

If they're not applying the Word of God, if they're not meditating on the Word of God, if they're not even trying to memorize the Word of God, then the first question I'll ask them is why not? So we were talking about this on the way here. Proverbs 20, verse 5, says the purpose of a man's heart is like deep water, but a man of understanding will draw it out. I'm trying to draw out what the Holy Spirit is doing in their heart and in their mind. So I'm just trying to facilitate what the Lord's doing through the scriptures, through the Holy Spirit, in our relationship. Well, I will give them things to do, call it homework or what have you, but just because I want to see where they're at. But if they don't do it, my first question, which is where real discipleship starts, is it's not a checkbox. They could give me an answer for that, right, they might say again Proverbs 25 or Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 or whatever. But I'll say why not? Let's pause, why not?

Speaker 1: 21:03

My discipleship can take 16 weeks or it can take two years, because there's the informal and formal. We have the formal framework to set up the informal, what the Lord is doing in their life, and there's a dance and a balance between both. So what I really want to know is why they're not. Well, they might say, hey, you know, kid was sick this week, maybe my marriage is in trouble, maybe, whatever it is, there might be a bunch of things. That's what I want to know Now, if we dig there, it's like an onion.

Speaker 1: 21:29

You ask why? Three or four times you'll get to the real answer, and that's where we really need to stay. So if I've done my work getting there and they're still not interested, now we'll have a deeper conversation and you might pause, say, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna continue, I'm here when you're ready. But you know this isn't working for you. That's okay. Right, they might come back in three months, six months. I've had a guy come back in a year later, right. Actually, a couple have come back a year later because they weren't quite ready. I said a lot there. Does that answer or help or?

Speaker 2: 22:01

You answered questions I had for a long time actually. That was great.

Speaker 3: 22:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:08

I really, really appreciate that I even have just a moment of vulnerability, like I asked myself a question of why in my own time with the lord a few uh, over a month ago, I was not excited about scripture. I'm like why? I was like why, lord, am I not excited about your?

Speaker 2: 22:29

word this is something. Something's wrong here, something's askew. I think it's a combination of factors like burnout, just tired and like kind of just going through motions and whatever. But I I think you put good words to it as like that's when real discipleship starts, that's actually the moment of intimacy. That's it that's it.

Speaker 1: 22:51

It's the motive. It's yes, we can check boxes all day long. Yeah, the first Bible memory I ever did. I met with a dear friend named Kobe Allen and we would meet weekly and we would have a memory verse thing. And I would do it and I would regurgitate it to him. But it didn't impact me, I wasn't living it out, I wasn't applying it, I was doing it. So I wasn't embarrassed from him, right that I didn't let him down, and because I told him I would, I'll let myself down, but I won't let other people down. So that's where accountability is good. But if it's just accountability, then we're just, you know, fist bumping like, hey, look what I did.

Speaker 1: 23:30

I memorized 52 verses. Well, how did you live them out? How did you apply them? I can promise you we will not get bored if we're obeying the scriptures and watching Christ show up in our everyday lives, moment after moment after moment. Peter risked his life to walk on water, but that experience he'll never forget, and I think that's what Christ wants us to do with. The word of God is by faith we obey.

Speaker 1: 23:52

And so think about if you did 52 verses, right, but you didn't just memorize, you meditated on them and you obeyed them. You don't just have verses in your head, you have them in your heart, because you said hey, I obeyed Christ in this and he answered and he came through. And now I'm excited and I can't wait. Like Psalm I think it's five three says I lay my request before the Lord in the morning and I wait in expectation. Now morning and I wait in expectation. Now we're living a life of expectation, waiting for the Lord to show up as I obey what he's already told me. We don't have to wait for a calling to do things. He's already commanded so much, right.

Speaker 1: 24:24

And so I think a lot of us sit back and we're twiddling our thumbs, waiting for a calling, and God's like I've already commanded you to do it, go and do it, but we don't. Then we get bored. Does that make sense? Because we're like man. But I read my Bible today, yeah, but did you actually do it? Go back to the Ferrari in the garage with the manual. You get really bored of your Ferrari in the garage reading the manual. Not that the manual is bad, the manual is awesome. The word of God I love, right, sharpen the two-edged sword, the whole thing. But it's meant to drive. It's meant to go 180 miles an hour and every once in a while we'll drive it and we'll go 20. Right, and then we get nervous because we're like oh man, you know, did I do it right? You know? And Jesus is like hey.

Speaker 3: 25:07

Such a great analogy.

Speaker 2: 25:08

It's such a great analogy. And they're not even good at 20. They're made to go. They're made to go over 100.

Speaker 1: 25:17

go over a hundred. That's when they settle in, right. Yeah, and so how much of this walk with Christ, are we not leaning into the Holy Spirit that's going to guide us? In truth, are we not reading the scripture saying Lord, how can I? And sometimes obedience is. You're reading the scriptures and he says pray for your enemies. Great, my obedience was praying for my enemies, and then what happens? My heart changes for my enemy. Right, we all know that one.

Speaker 1: 25:35

But my point is there's a million ways you can apply the word of God. Sometimes it's asking for forgiveness, sometimes it's saying I'm sorry, whatever. I mean, there's a million things, but I think we stop at the head knowledge and we forget the heart knowledge. But go back to the original question is the discipleship method I've put together. It's an amalgam, right, you collect stuff from everybody, but it's a. I call it directed discovery Because I want to facilitate what the Lord's doing in the hearts of men and women. I mean, their discipleship is for both men and women, and so I just want to unearth that, I want to dig it up and I say, hey, man, and that's what we do at Soli, that's what we do in good conversations, that's what we do we ask why and how? Can we go deeper? I'm not content if I take somebody through all 16 weeks of my stuff and they ace it Right, just checkbox, checkbox, checkbox. Then we haven't gotten anywhere really.

Speaker 3: 26:36

We've started, but but we've just scratched the surface. So we're going for transformation, not information.

Speaker 2: 26:40

That whole thing, I guess, just keep talking. So yeah, I want to make sure that we get some of the specific to trog kind of Sure, because obviously you're a discipler and you could probably just spend this hour teaching us how to be the best disciples ever and maybe that's what we should do.

Speaker 1: 26:57

But our maybe that's part two.

Speaker 2: 27:00

Maybe that's part two, because our normal journey here is like you and the lord, so I'd love to pick back up at. Like you, you met this dude, discipled you. What did that relationship feel like? Was he like a coach? Was he like a father, like a mentor, like Like, how did that? And so you have this relationship with this man.

Speaker 1: 27:24

And how did that parlay into your relationship with God? That's a good question. I would say he was more like a spiritual father than a coach. Interestingly enough, he isn't a guy that you would naturally like in the flesh be. He wasn't an athlete, he wasn't. I mean, there was nothing about him. I'd be like you know, yeah, let's hang out kind of thing from the outward standpoint, from the man of Christ he was.

Speaker 2: 27:53

Sounds like somebody I've heard about, right.

Speaker 1: 27:56

Well, yeah, that's right, that's right, yeah, that's exactly what the scriptures say, right Like there's nothing about Jesus, that we just draw you to him in the flesh.

Speaker 1: 28:05

So he was more of a spiritual father. I mean, he was one of those guys when I, his walk with Christ was so intense and so real, it was tangible. It was like you would hang out with him and you just felt the presence of Christ around him. And it wasn't about him, it was about Jesus. Let me be very clear there. It was the Holy Spirit's presence around in through him, and I wanted more that the peace he had. He had four kids and he ran a nonprofit and he was a pastor. He did all these things. He let go of the money that I wanted, right, like at this time I was young and I thought the more money I'd made, the more I could give back to God and God's like. Well, I kind of own the world, I don't really need what you think you can give back, you know. And so I realized I had an idol of money, I mean just all these things. Like he was not enticed by the things of the world, like the things of the world grew dim to him as the song goes, literally, and that was like so refreshing and I just wanted more of what he had. I wanted the fullness of Christ, as the scripture would say right, that's Christian maturity. And so he was more like a spiritual father. When I had questions, when I had you know, my wife and I've been married almost 20 years now when I we were dating at the time, I'd ask him questions about dating and marriage and, um, when I took my first job in ministry, I would call him and say, hey, what do you think? I mean, he was just that, that type of man that I always respected his walk with Christ and I just wanted to be more like him in that area. And so the way I say it is that it was like I got done, being discipled by him, and I had all this passion I wanted to enlist in the army, but I didn't have a gun or bullets yet. So it wasn't until four or five years later that a friend of mine named Josh Rolfe gave me these what I call now the five questions. They were a little bit different, but they're the questions we just talked about a little bit. So it's a kind of this question based drawing out, and then I felt like I had a gun and bullets and a bazooka, you know, and that's when I really was just lit on fire for discipleship.

Speaker 1: 30:13

But in that process I watched Mike's heart for the poor. Mike would say things like service is like the hinge on a door to salvation. So we love people, we serve them, we help them with their physical needs so we can meet their spiritual needs. So I watched him do that in South Dallas A very prim and proper white man with a tie and everything, and he would be in the hood on Sundays preaching to gangsters. And so I saw him do that, which I ended up following suit later on, as Ryan knows.

Speaker 1: 30:46

But yeah, that I could talk about that forever, but but it was his example is all I want to say. That made me go gosh. I want to live a life like that. I want Lord make my life count. I think of Judgment Day all the time and this started stewing in my heart of we're all going to be held accountable. I wear this wristband that says well done is greater than welcome home. I don't want to just get to heaven, as 1 Corinthians 3 says, and smell like smoke and everything I've worked for be burned away. I want a well done from Jesus, and Mike was the first man that I saw a well done in and I was like gosh. There's a difference between I have a ticket to heaven and I want a well done from Jesus, and so that's what he showed me. And again, that was. I think we're all growing in that I'm still growing in, that there are days I mess it up, there's days I'm not as focused as I want to be, but he began to show me that piece, I think. So.

Speaker 1: 31:50

I was in the business world. I got my MBA. I worked for a couple different millionaires. Go back to my story, if that's helpful, and realize I had an idol of money. It wasn't money that I wanted, it wasn't the green paper that smells a little dirty. It was what money did for me that I wanted most. So money, what did it do for me? Go back to the why? The question, the deeper question Money for me and it isn't this for everybody, but for me it was peace, it was security and it was comfort. Well, jesus had to share with me, through his word, of course, that he is all peace, he is all comfort, he is all security that a savings account is not secure. You can get cancer. A savings account is not secure. You can get in a car wreck. Savings account is not secure. You can lose it. I mean, the Proverbs talk about this all the time, but I had to see that and I had to see a man that had given it away and watched God show up in what I would call miraculous ways Although as we walk with Jesus, we realize they're pretty natural ways now. So I was in the business world for about nine years. I was in sales to some degree. Like I said, I worked for a couple different millionaires and I would go to these sales conferences and I would think again you know, I need to make more money so I can give more money to God and I would run into these verses that say labor not to be rich. Cease from thine own wisdom. Now, that's King James Version for you, but that's right. And I'm like, oh wait, a minute, I thought I'm supposed to, you know, because everything tells us in this world make more money, build platforms, do all this stuff and God's voice is a still small whisper. And so I had to surrender that idol of money. So when I did that, I realized and then he broke my heart for the poor.

Speaker 1: 33:26

About 2008, my wife and I started doing apartment life ministries and then we started digging some wells in Africa and sending goats and chickens overseas and getting connected to these nonprofits. And then I realized that you know, my Starbucks coffee, you know, could feed 10 orphans for a month, you know, in Nairobi, and the Lord just really started. Now I saw that in Mike Fetchner too. I saw what he was doing in South Dallas and these types of things. So in 2011, I actually lost my job.

Speaker 1: 33:58

I didn't do anything wrong. The verse of the day we talked about it, thomas, earlier those who water will be watered right. And so that was a verse that morning, when I was going in Long story short here, my boss let me go. But he said hey, you haven't done anything wrong. He said I'll help you make your resume, seeing if you want to go back into business.

Speaker 1: 34:21

But I asked the Lord and, by the way, he had just gotten out of rehab himself and had really had a reawakening in rehab, and he opened up a Bible. This is after two years of working with him and we'd had some conversations about Jesus, but nothing like this. And he turned to the book of Haggai and started reading it, and in that book, the book of Haggai, were prayers that I had been praying, not knowing it. And so, um, I'll keep it short here, but left the business world was very clear that I I felt like the Lord said yeah, you can go back into business if you want to, but, like Jonah, I'll swallow with you, swallow you with a whale and spit you back. You back out into ministry, because you've prayed and I've heard your prayer and it's my calling on your life.

Speaker 1: 35:02

And so that was the most freeing, peaceful, beautiful time of my life. My aunt called and said hey, you keep seeking the Lord, I'll pay your electric bill, whatever it takes, don't just take a job. And God provided. I left my. I told you about him breaking my heart for the poor. I called it project 2540. And I had a meeting with those guys that night. There were about 10 of us and I left with a mortgage payment in my pocket that night that I got fired from the guys that we had been helping people overseas.

Speaker 1: 35:32

Just cool stories about this. But that's when I went into full-time ministry and then I realized the truth of what Mike had said it's risking nothing to trust Christ with everything. So for the past 10 years I've raised my own support. Now you're looking at a guy who got his MBA at 23, who had an idol of money, and now I raise my own support to provide for my family. And I've done it for 10 years. And it's not about me, it's about God being faithful. So I'll tell you one quick story and you can ask me another question if you want to One of my buddies.

Speaker 1: 36:03

He was a pastor at the time. We were sitting in my living room and Mike had gotten sick with cancer and I was on staff at a church. We had had a lunch and he said all your passions evangelism, discipleship and helping the poor we're doing in South Dallas I want you to come down and check it out. And I said, okay, I'll do that, and very quickly. I was like, okay, I'm all in At this time I was on staff at a church, so I'll leave my salary and I'll raise support and I'll do this. And my buddy, who was a pastor at the time a missions pastor said are you sure you want to do this? God's called you to provide for your family. And in one of those moments, holy Spirit moments, I said I don't want my family to see me as the provider.

Speaker 1: 36:46

I want them to know that Jesus is our provider over me and from that season on, I mean, god has been extremely faithful. He always is faithful. But so, and I went to South Dallas. I worked there for seven or eight years and now I run my own discipleship ministry.

Speaker 3: 37:11

I would love for you to share a little bit about Bonton Farms and how you got integrated with that and kind of maybe some stories. What is it? Yeah, give vision for what it is.

Speaker 1: 37:17

That's a great question. So my mentor had started a ministry called His Bridge Builders Hope and Salvation Bridge Builders, and his goal was, in Dallas we kind of have this divide, culture-wise, color-wise, however you want to say it, but you have North Dallas very rich, very white area, and you have South Dallas very poor, very black area, very rich, very white area, and you have South Dallas very poor, very black area. And he wanted so badly to bridge those two things because he learned so much from the poor. I mean, he learned a woman named Velma, velma Mitchell. He met, he started discipling her son. Her son got killed in the drive-by and so their relationship was formed and they wanted to see Christ transform this neighborhood, and so he learned a lot from just faith, of what it means to have nothing and trust Christ with everything, as we talked about. And so him and Velma started a ministry called Bridge Builders his Bridge Builders.

Speaker 1: 38:10

Well, fast forward. When Mike got sick with cancer, I had been down there a few times but he said I want you to check out what we're doing. At the time Darren Babcock had left his career to go down to Bonton and start a garden and really that was it. So I guess it was about, I don't know, was it probably a year and a half after he moved down there that I met him. But Mike said, come down and meet Darren.

Speaker 1: 38:34

So I went down and I met Darren and he had started a little aquaponics thing and I just caught the vision. And he had started a little aquaponics thing and I just caught the vision. I was like this is a discipleship ministry. We're going to use the garden to grow food, but really we're going to grow disciples and we're going to make disciples through a garden in the inner city, which is a fascinating thought. So went on, staff at Bridge Builders, darren and I became fast friends and about four months after I went full time, mike died of cancer. And so, um, just a interesting time of like Lord, what are you doing? But it actually realizing, as the scriptures will say, that our death is really life. It's when life begins. I wouldn't mourn for you If you you told me you're gonna go on a cruise next week, but yet I'll mourn for you if you're gonna go spend eternity and be in the presence of Jesus.

Speaker 1: 39:27

And yet the scriptures talk about how it's better to, like. Paul says, I'd rather be home with the Lord than to be here. But if I'm gonna be here, fruitful labor I'll do. Isn't that interesting, anyway? Anyway, god taught me some of those things as I lost my mentor. So Darren and I took his backyard. We grew vegetables and tomatoes and sweet potatoes, and the city saw what we were doing with the men we were discipling, and so they gave us an extra lot and another lot, and another lot. It ended up being about an acre total.

Speaker 1: 39:55

And then we started really realizing that, especially in impoverished areas, it was a food desert, which just means that there were nearest grocery stores three miles away. It doesn't sound like a big deal to us with a car, but if you don't have an ID, you don't have transportation, you don't have a job, you have a rap sheet of felonies or whatever. That three miles is about three hours, right. And so we started seeing these patterns, and so what we started doing is saying, hey, how can we help you get transportation? Well, so if you were walking, we'd help you get a bike, and then, once we got you a bike, we'd help you get a driver's license. Once we got you a driver, pay off all the back tickets. I had a friend with like 48 back tickets and it was like $20,000. It's a whole crazy thing. So people like, just get a job and you'll be fine. But it's totally different than that. There's a lot you have to wade through. So then we would help them get a driver's license and we'd help them get a car. Same thing with jobs. Well, we'd help them build a resume, then we'd help them get a job. Or we would create a job. We'd have them move sticks that we were tearing down to build the garden or whatever it was. And so there were these seven pillars that we tried to build out step by step. Uh, and I couldn't list them all. Now I've got a spreadsheet of them, but essentially it's. It's going to be transportation, it's going to be health, um, it's going to be jobs, it's going to be education. Community is a big one, because if I were to lose my job, I would have I mean, I could. I'm going to stay with Thomas for the next week, so he'd let me hang out with him, right. But when you've lost your community a lot of times addiction will do that Then you just have to rebuild everything. So Bonton Farms is about rebuilding the structure needed so that people can flourish, and hopefully, in the process of that, what we would call holistic discipleship I think it's.

Speaker 1: 41:37

Thessalonians says that we not only share the gospel, we also shared our lives, and our goal was to share our lives with people. We would say you know, if I gave people bread for today, I'd be wise today, but if I didn't give them the bread of life, we'd be fools for eternity. And so we didn't. As my buddy from Africa, he was a missionary he said we don't want to send people to hell with a full belly. So we were trying to fill bellies with what they needed, but also give them the bread of life, jesus Christ through it, and show them that if they too follow Christ and obey him, then their life will frame up as the blessings. Not a prosperity gospel, but the structure will begin, relationships will rebuild, jobs you'll keep. We could get people jobs, but without the character of Christ they couldn't keep a job. So there's all these things that we take for granted that Bonton Farms was about.

Speaker 1: 42:30

And then I was there again about seven and a half years. I still do things in Bonton all the time. In fact, a majority of the nonprofits that we've started and the people that we support. We help get transportation. Just had a buddy donate a car to south house driving um academy, I mean just all sorts of fun stuff that we're still. I'm not on the ground growing tomatoes and breaking up fights like I used to every day, um, but I'm still, you know, helping in every way that I can. So, and that work will still continue. Government how?

Speaker 3: 42:59

how did the transition away from Bonton Farms happen? What did the Lord call you to after that?

Speaker 1: 43:06

That's a cool story. The same verse that he gave me when I went into full-time ministry. There's more to this story. I'm going to sum it up, though I felt this nudging. I was on the front lines of discipleship I'm talking seriously breaking up fights and growing tomatoes and ministries and churches and people I mean they would come down. I mean we had people from like NGOs from 50 different countries come down from the State Department to learn how we were doing so. We had trained a lot of different organizations in Cape Girardeau, missouri and all these different things, and I started seeing God expand, I guess, his voice through me and what would happen is, I just felt like this calling to again train disciple makers, to make disciples, to train leaders, and so again, fast forwarding a lot here, but those who water will be watered was the verse that I left business and went into full-time ministry.

Speaker 1: 44:00

That day was a very cool day. Fast forward, a buddy of mine I had confided in. He supports a lot of different ministries, he has a lot of money, good Christian man, and uses his wealth to advance the kingdom, and he said I was driving in and I was going to talk to Darren that day and tell him what was on my heart and he said well, what are you worried about? What's your biggest concern? And I was like I don't know. I guess he could just say well, peace, chunk the deuces, you're on your own. And at that point I didn't have enough. I had no place to raise my money that I was raising, even though I was raising it, does that make sense, pickle? And so he just said, on the drive down, he said hey, if that happens, I'll cover you for the time it needs to get on your feet and just tearful, was like, oh my gosh, here we go. This is you know. You know, when you step out in faith and you're walking on water, so to speak, and it stands, you're like, okay, and I did the devotional that day and the same verse those who water will be watered was that morning.

Speaker 1: 45:02

Same morning that I had the conversation with my friend Bobby. Same day I was going to talk to Darren and so and it was great, I mean again, we're friends. And so he was like, hey, let's phase out. And so they gave me a run runway. Um, in fact, I remember talking with Darren. He said you know, we've always wanted to plant a church in Bonton, my mentor got close. He planted a church, but it was about 30 minutes away in Dallas because of some space we had, so it just didn't fit. But anyway, darren said, I hope that you know, maybe this will be the catalyst to plant a church. Well, we kept the Bible study going on Wednesday nights. Fast forward, we met Brandon Rowe and so he has since planted Bonton Bible Church.

Speaker 1: 45:41

And they're having 30 people there on Wednesday nights, and just a week or two ago they had 50. And so now I can tell you that we've planted a church in Bonton and that it's growing and going, a lot of other cool things, but anyway, so that was a little bit of the transition, wow.

Speaker 3: 46:01

How do you? How do you?

Speaker 1: 46:13

I want to articulate this question well, how do you balance family wife in the midst of mission? I wish I could answer eloquently on that. I feel like that's one of the things I'm not as good at as I want to be. In my ministry updates I say all the time pray for me that I'll be a better minister at home than I am in the world. I'm hard on myself too, so I can tell you a lot of different things that I know that we're on the right track.

Speaker 1: 46:42

My daughter has won the heart of the line, which is the most Christlike character, three times at her school. My son's won it twice. So we're doing some things right. I don't want to paint a picture like we're perfect because we're not, but it's really hard. It's coaching baseball, it's coaching basketball, it's doing all those mundane things that are honestly hard for me. Uh it, you know I think it was particularly hard when I was in Bonton because you know the people are suffering and you know you're coaching a sport while they're in need and things like that. But I think it's being there and being in the mix and you know whether it's. My son has thing at school called pride of brothers and so I go to that.

Speaker 1: 47:23

I'm just there, it's the ministry of presence as much as possible. We also sacrifice and send our kids to private school. Um, my wife teaches there part time, so she gets a bit of a discount and so, but we said we are going to raise our children to love and know Christ and we don't just want to raise them, uh, with again the checkbox or the sticker, the badge right, like we want them to know the Lord and to fall in love with him. And so, uh, by God's grace, they've all trusted Christ. I baptized both my sons and so they're doing good.

Speaker 1: 47:56

Uh, my wife, who I'm sure she would tell you I could be a much better husband and father, because there's always areas that I can grow in and I do my best to hear that constructive criticism and say, hey, where can I do better? But I think it's devotions at night and praying with them in the morning. I mean, it's a million things right, my daughter and I are actually going through my discipleship material. So there's the formal side and the informal, but most of parenting and marriage and husbandry, or whatever you want to call it, is the informal side of discipleship. They see, when stress hits, am I calling a godly man and getting advice, or am I just complaining and gossiping? Am I opening up the word of God when I'm struggling or am I going to Dr Phil? So those informal things, I think, are vitally important. It's not what's taught, it's what's caught a lot of times in family and being a father, I think, and husband.

Speaker 3: 48:56

Yeah, that's good.

Speaker 2: 48:58

Yeah, they see everything you do.

Speaker 3: 49:00

Yes, that's good yeah, they see everything you do.

Speaker 2: 49:01

Yes, how you react. I actually felt convicted the other day. I switched from my morning devotions to reading the Bible on my, from reading the Bible on my phone to reading the Bible.

Speaker 1: 49:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:12

Because I was like my kids are walking into my room. They're just thinking about my phone. Yep, they don't know what I'm doing on there. They could think I'm playing online poker or something. That's right, right. But I was like these kids are, they're looking at me and they're particularly like my boys I have only boys like they're just seeing, like this is what my dad does. It's probably what I should do. That's right. That's the way they're wired. So I was like I'm back dusted off the old paper Bible.

Speaker 1: 49:44

Well, that's actually no the reason I carry a Bible with me. I carry it with me everywhere In the airport, I carried it with me Lunches, dinners. I just carry it with me all the time because it's actually an evangelism tool. People look at it. People will ask me about it. I had a guy. I went in to get dinner. They sat me at the bar and I was by myself waiting on my daughter and I had to produce a Sunday school lesson. So I'm here at this bar doing a Sunday school lesson and the guy beside me bought my dinner just because I was working on Scripture.

Speaker 1: 50:11

And he was like hey, man, that's awesome. So it is a witnessing tool. And I'll tell you this there's a book called God's Promises and it lists like 10 verses for all these different topics. Right, I found that book because it was on my dad's shelf growing up. I don't even know if I don't remember him opening it. I don't remember opening it, but later on in life I remembered oh, there's God's Promises book, and now I give them away to almost every guy disciple.

Speaker 2: 50:36

I know that book well, you know it, there you go, love it.

Speaker 1: 50:38

Well and think about that, that was just because my dad had a copy right, Like it was just out and available.

Speaker 3: 50:44

You never read it. I don't remember.

Speaker 1: 50:47

I mean, I was a kid, Maybe I did but I'd remember it's a blue one with a gold lettering, you know. And so that's the impact, right, of what's caught, I think, from dads, and and so, yeah, I mean just seeing you read the bible or just seeing the bible open on the breakfast table, right, you might be getting them around, and you know our mornings are chaotic. I'm sure with five kids, yours are more chaotic than mine but just having the bible on the table, you know, and then seeing it, that can be a big deal one thing we do.

Speaker 2: 51:15

I'll just mention this, since you're into discipleship with boys particularly like I feel like the physical almost leads into the spiritual, like they're just such a physical creatures right. So we do this thing called read pray run twice a week.

Speaker 2: 51:31

Wake up on Mondays and Fridays and I we read passages, scripture, then we pray about it, like all kind of go around and pray about it and then they go run a mile and the idea is that you meditate on what you learned while you're running, because I I I'm a runner and so I used to run with headphones and podcasts and music and then after a few months I got to where I don't run with anything and it is my, it's my decluttering time and my mind and I feel like it's just a sweet special time with the Lord and I think I'm just still like a little boy and that I've got so much energy, so many things going on in my mind that I can actually think when I'm exhausted.

Speaker 1: 52:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:19

But when I'm not exhausted, you know I'm like I'm too cluttered, like that greyhound dog. It's like if you run them for a while they're good dogs. They're terrible if you don't take them on walks or run them right. That's awesome, so our household is kind of like that. That's good, I wrote that down.

Speaker 1: 52:36

Read Brave Run. I love that. Yeah, I wrote that down.

Speaker 2: 52:37

Read Brave Run. I love that. Yeah, you get some t-shirts, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 52:41

Well, it's practical. It's something that your listeners can take away and do next week, and that's what I love about it, sure.

Speaker 2: 52:46

People can go do that. I think. I just kind of think maybe my boys will think about this when they have kids. Remember that thing dad used to do with us. It's like, let's just do that because it's so easy. Yeah, it's so simple. What?

Speaker 1: 52:59

do you do with your kids?

Speaker 2: 53:00

Like, obviously your daughter's going through your material, which is super cool. Yeah, what do you do with your sons?

Speaker 1: 53:08

Man well, let's see. So Truth is in basketball right now, so I'm coaching his basketball team. His name is what Truth. That's cool, yeah, I should tell you their names. So Truth, zadok or Zadok, trogdon, rock, titus and then Seven Ezra. So I've got some. I'm not Amish.

Speaker 2: 53:27

I look a little Amish, but by joke about it.

Speaker 1: 53:31

They're either gonna get picked on or people are gonna love their names. But so far they love their names.

Speaker 2: 53:34

So Seven Ezra Trogdon? Yeah, he's never going to meet another kid with his name.

Speaker 1: 53:39

That's right, we've actually had, so Seven's my oldest. Sorry, seven's my daughter, so she's my oldest, but we've actually had people. We've had a couple people name their kids Seven. Now it's kind of funny.

Speaker 1: 53:50

But yeah, she was she loves the unique and summer name man I try to do. What they love is essentially the answer. I'm coaching my son's baseball. Well, I'm assistant coaching, helping his doubleheader league. I'm coaching his single game league basketball. I help coach there. I wasn't a huge football player, although my dad started like two or three different football programs at small colleges, so anyway. So basketball, baseball, I like to coach and help, you know, encourage them, and it makes sure that I'm there too when you're coaching. You can't just skip, you can't be busy. My daughter, we're a lot alike. I mean she loves to read, she's an old soul. I mean I think she was like 40 when she was born. It feels like you know and um, but we do all sorts of fun. I like I'm not going to go on like elaborate fishing trips, but I'll go to the ponds in our neighborhood so they'll come with me. My daughter likes to fish, so we'll fish together. I took my daughter hunting this year and she got a hog and a deer and that was the best weekend.

Speaker 1: 54:54

Yeah, it was a ministry that that gave us a it was a ministry that gave us, I guess, a free tag, I guess, to go hunting with them, and it's kind of like a solely business only for dads and daughters.

Speaker 3: 55:03

No way.

Speaker 1: 55:04

And so my daughter. Dads couldn't shoot.

Speaker 3: 55:07

Based around hunting. Based around hunting? No way, yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1: 55:11

And dads couldn't shoot, only the daughters Whoa, so we went out to essentially Amarillo, Texas. And, man, it was bitter cold, it was like negative 13. And uh, my daughter shot a hog the first night and a deer the second, and those kinds of I mean she's still giddy when she talks about it.

Speaker 2: 55:30

And uh, of course, campfire that night. And so, dude, that's a far cry from the daddy daughter dance, I know Well now.

Speaker 1: 55:33

I will tell you. Yeah, oh, I got a cool story about that. Okay, so we did all those. I did all the daddy-daughter dances I guess COVID minus COVID, but we did all of them and the cool story there. And I used to tell my daughter this and again. So things I don't think about until you bring it up. But in sixth grade girls start getting too cool for dad, right, and I always told her I was like you know, you'll be too cool for me, trust me. And I always told her I was like you know, you'll be too cool for me, trust me. And anyway, but sixth grade rolled around and she still wanted to go to daddy daughter aunts, so we did, and I think she might've had like a handful of friends go. Seventh grade came around and I think it was like one or like two or three, but she wanted to go, so we did. And then I think eighth grade was. So eighth grade was the last one and none of her friends went, but we went no way yeah, and then here's the cool part.

Speaker 1: 56:19

So the dj, she loves the butterfly kisses song, right and so we'd always dance to it.

Speaker 1: 56:24

She always cried to it every time like, again, she's an old soul. Well, the dj, who I kind of know not well, but we know each other enough and, uh, he didn't play butterfly kisses and so it was like the last song of the night. He calls for it and I'm like, no, what you do, this is our last daddy daughter, you're playing, that's all you know. Like I'm like you can't not anyway. So I just went up to him and I was like, hey, is there any way that you could play butterfly kisses? And he was like I got you. Well, anyway. So he makes an announcement and he says, hey, for all the eighth grade daughters, this is your last dance. Daddy daughter dance. And we look around, we're the only ones, so the whole ballroom clears and my daughter and I danced to that song.

Speaker 1: 57:04

Isn't that amazing? I got so many videos and I it was crazy because anyway. So we had a clear dance dance. While I'm tearing up, um, on the eighth grade, daddy daughter dance and so I don't know, just stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 57:18

Those are just things that.

Speaker 1: 57:20

God says I see you, I love you, I'm going to give you a blessing. I'm not a runner, though it takes me like three months to work up to a half mile, and I'm sore every day. So running, I could walk, but I'm going to have to adjust the read pray run. It'll be walk, pray run.

Speaker 2: 57:39

We do on the rainy days, we do plank. Uh, yeah, replay plank oh, okay yeah, okay, which is not much better, because planks are I don't know, planks are kind of brutal.

Speaker 1: 57:50

When I run, all I can think about is ow, ow, ow. Like this hurts, like every step is like this, like people enjoy that, like people talk about a runner's high. I don't know what that means. I've never experienced it. I don't know if like a half mile doesn't give you long enough, but you know yeah, probably about 12 15 more miles. Yeah I'm not tough enough. That's why I grow a long beard. I look tougher than I am shrug.

Speaker 3: 58:16

This has been such a pleasure. Seriously, I said this last time to you and I said it a while before that, but you emulate Jesus. So so much man, and I've only said that to a few people in my lifetime, and I love your life. Consider it an honor to know you. Thank you, I love you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 58:41

Brought me home, thank you.